Measurements and Review of Schiit Yggdrasil DAC

[amirm]

That was hardly an insult that Mike gave you. You posted your entire review, once in Jason's thread, and once in Mike's thread.

Where. Give a link.

 

[amirm]

Hey, @Baldr, I run a site dedicated to quantifiable measurements. I took a look at your Bifrost MB DAC, and saw several disturbing things, including spurs up and down the spectrum around a single-tone test, and surprisingly low resolution. I'd like to talk to you about it. Jude doesn't want links to other sites, how can we do this? I'm looking for information, not for a fight.

Why? I have nothing to speak to him about.

Other manufacturers have reached out to me here in private and public to discuss my work and I am happy to do that. I see no reason to go and seek them out.

 

[FrivolsListener]

Where. Give a link.

Gone; deleted. But you know that. If I knew we'd be talking about this a day later, I would have screencapped it.

 

[FrivolsListener]

Why? I have nothing to speak to him about.

Yeah you do, and you're making it personal.

 

[amirm]

Bottom line: You did the same thing, twice, with all the diplomacy of a thrown rock. I'm sorry you are banned over there -- they and we are poorer for it. I don't think it was Mike. I think it was a head-fi mod or site owner. But you sir, if you weren't before, are now carrying a large chip on your shoulder about them.

That's your guess, it doesn't mean it is right. And I have no chip on my shoulder. I am simply stating the facts that they are not welcoming any conversation with me. Heck either one of them could have reached out to me on Head-fi in private and neither did. So why do you keep insisting I should talk to them? About what and why???

 

[amirm]

Gone; deleted. But you know that. If I knew we'd be talking about this a day later, I would have screencapped it.

You are wrong then. I know what I post and it absolutely, positively was not a copy of my review.

 

[FrivolsListener]

That's your guess, it doesn't mean it is right. And I have no chip on my shoulder. I am simply stating the facts that they are not welcoming any conversation with me. Heck either one of them could have reached out to me on Head-fi in private and neither did. So why do you keep insisting I should talk to them? About what and why???

Because 1) I don't believe Mike is a charlatan, 2) I believe your measurements are genuine, and 3) I want to know how to resolve that conflict in my mind, so 4) I want more information.

 

[FrivolsListener]

Where'd that SBAF screencap go? I was sure it was in this thread.

 

[amirm]

Because 1) I don't believe Mike is a charlatan, 2) I believe your measurements are genuine, and 3) I want to know how to resolve that conflict in my mind, so 4) I want more information.

Then the right thing to do is for you all to reach out to him and ask him to follow up with me and/or perform their own measurements to see what is up. There is nothing else in my abilities to deal with this as I no longer have the gear. They have access to everything they need to provide more answers.

 

[Thomas Savage]

Because 1) I don't believe Mike is a charlatan, 2) I believe your measurements are genuine, and 3) I want to know how to resolve that conflict in my mind, so 4) I want more information.

Goto schiit and ask questions , inquire to see some of their own measurements.

Beyond that I’d chill out and not worry about it, maybe crack open a beer and listen to some music.

 

[DonH56]

Diplomacy, sir, diplomacy. One doesn't have to go in like a rock thrown through a window!

THIS, GODDAMMIT!

Hmmm...

 

[RayDunzl]

Busted.

 

[GearMe]

That is not an objection to measurements. It is an objection to subjective listening. By having the person re-listen later with the pre-conditioning that 72 hours fixes things they up the odds that the person will have a different/better subjective impression.

I keep hearing Mike is an engineer. Therefore instrumentation needs to be his friend. He should come with boatload of data.

I would agree with that for a subjective evaluation...the power of suggestion for sure!

I was more focused on the measurements aspect of the 72 hour delta...it's a simple task to complete. TBH, I would suspect that it's been done and I'd love to see those measurements!

FWIW, my two higher value purchases (imo) from Schiit have both been amps. I don't see myself buying another DAC from them. In hindsight, I wish I could have bought the Mimby instead of the Bimby (at a savings of $350). Again...beyond all this...it's the transducers that really matter to my listening experience.

Regarding Mike being an engineer, it would seem that he's not in your eyes...or for that matter, others in this forum. To other folks outside this forum, it seems that they think he is.

For me, I really don't give a Schiit what he 'is'. Hopefully, he's enjoying life and is at peace with himself and others.

Bottom line for me, if I think I'll like a company's product and they have a reputation of taking care of their customers, then I'll buy from them. If not, I won't. When I do make a purchase, sometimes it's a hit, other times it's a miss...not a big deal given the amount of $$$ being spent.

That said, if a combination of measurements, insights to be gleaned from them, and even subjective reviews can help me make a more informed buying decision, then I'm all for it!

 

[Thomas Savage]

Can we try and stick to discussing the measurement results please, again we are not here to throw hate on other forums.

Content that’s soul aim is to ridicule members on other forums will be removed and indeed one such post has been.


I know the measurements can be challenging on a few levels , it’s hard for those who don’t have much of a technical grasp and want to be involved here but it’s also hard for members who do have that knowledge and awareness to deal with those that don’t.

Please continue to show some understanding of that and the fact it cuts both ways, thanks .

 

[DonH56]

I was hoping what was promising to be a interesting thread would be more civil. It's just a big pile on. Yikes.

You are correct and I apologize for my part in it.

The problem is that many of us have been through the "I can hear every grain of sand on the beach" phase, and experienced countless schemes/scams by manufacturers making up all sorts of grandiose claims that are never proven to be audible (at best), shilling us out of mucho money. I was one of those ages ago, but more experience (including a number of DBTs as a participant and moderator/analyzer) and a lot more engineering classes and experience, have made me much more jaded. From the nonsensical but lauded green CD markers, to the cable measurements showing hugely improved bandwidth and lower ripples (when plotted at 0.01 dB/div out to 10 MHz), to the endless "it may measure bad but sounds great" stories, many of us are just tired of it. And cranky, yes, and churlish to those who bring the same arguments but really have no reason to anticipate a barrage of essentially "not again" posts. And some of us, or maybe just me, get tired of the endless attacks like "measurements don't tell all" (duh, but they tell a lot), "I can hear more than you'll ever measure", "you can't hear it because your hearing/system/whatever is not good enough", etc.

The flip side is there have been some major advancements in audio driven by those who hear and believe and argue against the doubters so it is wrong to shut them down completely. But the good stuff is almost impossible to separate from the endless drivel and irrational attacks so the grain of good gets thrown out with the bushel of bad.

Anyway, stick around, and perhaps we'll all learn something. - Don

 

[FrivolsListener]

Hmmm...

This is a continuation of a conversation that started on the Bifrost thread, and has its roots back on head-fi. I was -- and am -- losing patience. I believe his measurements. What I don't like is how he's written them up and responded to criticism, behaving in fact the very way he accuses Mike and Jason of behaving.

Busted.

Or not. *shrug*

 

[Thomas Savage]

I would agree with that for a subjective evaluation...the power of suggestion for sure!

I was more focused on the measurements aspect of the 72 hour delta...it's a simple task to complete. TBH, I would suspect that it's been done and I'd love to see those measurements!

FWIW, my two higher value purchases (imo) from Schiit have both been amps. I don't see myself buying another DAC from them. In hindsight, I wish I could have bought the Mimby instead of the Bimby (at a savings of $350). Again...beyond all this...it's the transducers that really matter to my listening experience.

Regarding Mike being an engineer, it would seem that he's not in your eyes...or for that matter, others in this forum. To other folks outside this forum, it seems that they think he is.

For me, I really don't give a Schiit what he 'is'. Hopefully, he's enjoying life and is at peace with himself and others.

Bottom line for me, if I think I'll like a company's product and they have a reputation of taking care of their customers, then I'll buy from them. If not, I won't. When I do make a purchase, sometimes it's a hit, other times it's a miss...not a big deal given the amount of $$$ being spent.

That said, if a combination of measurements, insights to be gleaned from them, and even subjective reviews can help me make a more informed buying decision, then I'm all for it!

That’s what we are hear for, to present information and be a place where you’ve got a chance to learn how to interpret it yourself thus avoiding being led astray by someone else’s interpretation.

How you use that information, your own buying priorities etc is up to you.

I appreciate your participation .

 

[DonH56]

I may get banned for this but can't resist -- punchy from a very long day...

Content that’s soul aim is to ridicule members on other forums will be removed and indeed one such post has been.

I thought at first you meant "sole" but upon reflection about the quasi-religious nature of these debates decided you are correct...

Is it OK if we ridicule members on this forum?

Please continue to show some understanding of that and the fact it cuts both ways, thanks .

This.

 

[Thomas Savage]

I may get banned for this but can't resist -- punchy from a very long day...



I thought at first you meant "sole" but upon reflection about the quasi-religious nature of these debates decided you are correct...

Is it OK if we ridicule members on this forum?



This.

I’m always one step ahead Don, it’s the benefit of my youthfulness.

 

[Jerry Sobel]

I own a recently purchased Yggdrasil and I'm not happy. I wrote a message to the support team to ask them to please explain to me why the testing shows it cannot even process 16 bit adequately. I cannot wait to see if I get a response and if so what it says. I have wasted enough money on the voodoo science of cables and this I find potentially much worse. I feel a google review brewing.