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Measurements and Review of Schiit Yggdrasil DAC

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Thomas savage

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Maybe it just sounds good to them. Why does everyone have be dishonest to like an item that some might not? Have you personally listened to DACs that exhibited audible noise and distortion?

Also, people seem to be so concerned about cost. The Yaggi is not really expensive as far as high-end goes. Granted people that are comparing it to relativity budget DACs are disturbed by the price, but looking at the high-end market (where it belongs) it sits at the low end, price-wise.
The people making the hifi and the folks writing the mags and now those running online ‘forums’ work hand in hand, they are one. You don’t have to be real clever like to see that might cause review ‘ reliability ‘ issues.

It’s a small sector high end hifi , everyone knows everyone and they all know they must work together in order to promote the industry... a industry in a degree of decline.

So there’s hideous compromise in terms of true independence of the content provided by these entities, both commercial and social bias, are they evil? No and likely they ‘believe ‘ in what they are doing. Though I have personally come across plenty cynical shit that would say otherwise.
 

rebbiputzmaker

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The people making the hifi and the folks writing the mags and now those running online ‘forums’ work hand in hand, they are one. You don’t have to be real clever like to see that might cause review ‘ reliability ‘ issues.

It’s a small sector high end hifi , everyone knows everyone and they all know they must work together in order to promote the industry... a industry in a degree of decline.

So there’s hideous compromise in terms of true independence of the content provided by these entities, both commercial and social bias, are they evil? No and likely they ‘believe ‘ in what they are doing. Though I have personally come across plenty cynical shit that would say otherwise.
Everything you say makes sense.

We are not stupid (I hope) and people at the end should make their own decisions and not take anyone's opinions verbatim.
 
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amirm

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Thread Starter #763
I continue to marvel at how many glowing reviews the Yaggi received from paid reviewers. Either they all love noise and distortion, or the entire audiophile publishing business is more broken than I ever imagined. Sorry, I have run down to the kitchen, my latest batch of snake oil is boiling over.
Part of the problem is how our hearing works. You get a new DAC, plug it in and pay attention to whether it is good or bad. That very act then allows you to hear detail you did not hear before. It cuts through the noise floor. Gives you more "bloom" and space around the instrument.

None of this happens because the new gear is necessarily any different whatsoever to your ears. It happens because how our perception works. WIth no awareness of it, reviewers fall victim to it and write the flowery words.
 
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amirm

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Thread Starter #764
Maybe it just sounds good to them. Why does everyone have be dishonest to like an item that some might not?
Per my other post, they may not be dishonest but they have a responsibility to the reader to produce the truth. And that truth requires them to research and understand their perception. That they don't bother or ignore what they know, makes them guilty of wasting their reader's money on stuff that may not sound any different or be bad products.
 

RayDunzl

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Part of the problem is how our hearing works. You get a new DAC, plug it in and pay attention to whether it is good or bad. That very act then allows you to hear detail you did not hear before. It cuts through the noise floor. Gives you more "bloom" and space around the instrument.
If I keep switching back and forth between my two pairs of speakers can I pump up my perception since I'll think they'll each sound better than the other?

I guess I'll have to go three-way and make my headphones sound better too...
 

Ron Texas

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Unfortunately, the paid reviewers are under pressure to find differences and rank components, usually with the more expensive ones at the top. If the paid reviewers started to say it's the same old thing, or just a different flavor, then the review samples stop coming and they have to get a real job. At least that's how it is with electronics. Speakers have a greater degree of variation.
 

Thomas savage

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There’s been huge thread drift , do we have any more to say regarding the OP?

If not can we go out and explore other areas of the forum, I don’t want to close this thread so please refrain from posting anything if it’s not to do with the schiit product and our measurements/review.

Cheers
 
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Thread Starter #769
Does the project file include a log of the measurements made, what settings were used and the output?
It does but it is only relevant to people who have the hardware and hence my question. I will be creating a tutorial for each measurement explaining the settings so you can know those parameters without access to AP hardware or software.
 

Ron Texas

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In terms of generating controversy, this thread is hard to beat. A DAC gets loving reviews from the paid reviewer community and it measures very weak. It was built by a company with cult following. Add in a manufacturer's advice that the chip not be used for audio. It's better than anything someone could make up.
 

garbulky

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In terms of generating controversy, this thread is hard to beat. A DAC gets loving reviews from the paid reviewer community and it measures very weak. It was built by a company with cult following. Add in a manufacturer's advice that the chip not be used for audio. It's better than anything someone could make up.
It doesn't measure very weak. Have you seen the balanced measurements?
 

Candlesticks

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It does but it is only relevant to people who have the hardware and hence my question. I will be creating a tutorial for each measurement explaining the settings so you can know those parameters without access to AP hardware or software.
Then upload it as an attachment for every measurement made. So that anyone who does have the equipment can see what was done in the interest of transparency.
 

mindbomb

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It doesn't measure very weak. Have you seen the balanced measurements?
It's definitely not as bad as some audio gd products, but I'm only seeing a modest improvement with Jude's measurements in thd+n, and that might be due to having the usb gen v upgrade + analog 2 upgrade, which was a combination not tested here. For me, there is still the power supply noise, the high imd, and the shifting levels with low signals that give me an uneasy feeling with this dac.

And analog devices themselves saying that the dac chip sounds lousy and shouldn't be used for audio applications is a huge red flag. It's kinda crazy how people who take anecdotes about "sabre glare" seriously are willing to overlook this.
 
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rebbiputzmaker

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And analog devices themselves saying that the dac chip sounds lousy and shouldn't be used for audio applications is a huge red flag. It's kinda crazy how people who take anecdotes about "sabre glare" seriously are willing to overlook this.
Well, we still have to get clarity whether the measured distortion is audible. If not, then, are we looking for good sound, or good numbers. This must be a personal decision IMO.

As far as AD application recommendation IMO this is pretty meaningless as a skilled designer knows what they are working with and was able to design a proper audio DAC. This happens in many fields where manufacturers recommendations are guidelines, not absolutes.

Amir; With the new AP if you have an opportunity would you run these tests again?
 

Frank Dernie

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Well, we still have to get clarity whether the measured distortion is audible. If not, then, are we looking for good sound, or good numbers. This must be a personal decision IMO.
Logically if the distortion is inaudible it will sound the same, if it sounds different then the distortion is audible.
 
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amirm

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It doesn't measure very weak. Have you seen the balanced measurements?
Those measurements are made by someone else, using different instruments, and units without provenance and need to be confirmed. There definite flaws in how those tests are run. So please don't run with them until I get to confirm them.
 
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Thread Starter #778
Amir; With the new AP if you have an opportunity would you run these tests again?
Yes, the problem is getting a hold of Yggdrasil DAC. I have not been able to locate one to re-test. And the people who say their measurements are better than mine apparently are not motivated to loan me their unit to test despite me asking!
 

garbulky

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Those measurements are made by someone else, using different instruments, and units without provenance and need to be confirmed. There definite flaws in how those tests are run. So please don't run with them until I get to confirm them.
AP helped set the test up according to Jude.
 
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