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Measurement of R2R DAC

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Thomas savage said:
You fundamentally misunderstand why some here object to anecdotal experiences being put forward as facts.

That’s your deficiency not our members
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So if you were to go to a physician you would not want him you use his 50 years of experience to decide if you have hoof in mouth disease.

OK I can accept that.:cool:
 
The MSB review is from 2012, though at $50k you'd (or I'd, anyway) expect stellar performance in every way.
 
rebbiputzmaker said:
So if you were to go to a physician you would not want him you use his 50 years of experience to decide if you have hoof in mouth disease.

OK I can accept that.:cool:
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Why even go to a physician? I'm sure alternative medicine can give you stuff that doesn't test well, but apparently is much better.
 
DonH56 said:
The MSB review is from 2012, though at $50k you'd (or I'd, anyway) expect stellar performance in every way.
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But if the design platform they have decided to use and gives the sound they as the manufacture desire, should they abandon it because it can only test to a certain level?

They have put sound ahead of measurements. Are they misguided? Or should sound (in the case of audio equipment) be the final arbiter?

And $50k is probably about 50 times more that I would like to spend on a dac.
 
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mindbomb said:
Why even go to a physician? I'm sure alternative medicine can give you stuff that doesn't test well, but apparently is much better.
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Healthcare relies on evidence based research, which can be a balance between objective and subjective measure.
 
rebbiputzmaker said:
So if you were to go to a physician you would not want him you use his 50 years of experience to decide if you have hoof in mouth disease.
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We use that same experience day in and day out. Just like the physician running tests, we also like to use that data to augment what we know. Our collective knowledge just like that doctor will give you a diagnostic that you won't like. So don't ask for it. :)

Remember, our equivalent of JAMA, the J. ASA would throw you out on your ears if you assert the kind of things you believe there.
 
Superdad said:
What I think all your DAC tests fail to take into account is the great variation in SQ between the I-V and analog output stages of various DACs. If you think a quick and cheap op-amp will sound as good as say a discrete output stage in an Ayre or Berkeley DAC, well then...
I recognize and accept that many here at ASR believe that your distortion and jitter measurements tell the entire story audio quality. Even setting aside high-end audio manufacturers, I don't think that pro-sound/studio equipment firms would agree.
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There recently was the bryston bda-2 review, and it is a voltage output dac, so I was wondering if there would be any performance deficits relative to some of the other high end dacs that have really nice i-v stages. But there didn't seem to be any in those measurements. Is there a test that can show the issues? What should people be looking for?
 
amirm said:
We use that same experience day in and day out. Just like the physician running tests, we also like to use that data to augment what we know. Our collective knowledge just like that doctor will give you a diagnostic that you won't like. So don't ask for it. :)

Remember, our equivalent of JAMA, the J. ASA would throw you out on your ears if you assert the kind of things you believe there.
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What about AES?
 
rebbiputzmaker said:
What about AES?
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Sorry I meant J. AES but J. ASA would be the same. None would allow any paper written on the basis of sighted anecdotal listening tests to be published.

You would have to run controlled tests, run statistical analysis, etc.
 
svart-hvitt said:
I had read that Stereophile article...but this is the Select...at $100k...and then you have the eight channel DAC at $200k...

Maybe Amir could go to California and ask if they would let him measure? It would be great PR if measurements complement price.
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The MSB DAC is probably the best measuring R2R ladder DAC available. Even if JA was being sincere in his compliment, a lot has changed since 2012. I bet the Topping would measure better.

Having said that, I’ve heard the MSB DAC. There’s nothing to complain about there. It’s sounds great.

MSB does measure quite well in other objective data. There’s a huge loopback thread on gear slutz. I believe the MSB DAC and ADC run off the same clock has the best loopback score of any other unit or combo of units. At least it did the last time I checked it.
 
dallasjustice said:
https://www.studyfinds.org/doctors-age-death-risk/
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Hi Mike,

Yes and no, looking further into the article. There are caveats.


"Older doctors may have knowledge that can only be gained by experience, but they cannot just rest on their laurels. They have to keep up with the rapid changes that come with new research and technology.

“The results of our study suggest the critical importance of continuing medical education throughout a doctor’s entire career, regardless of age and experience,” Jena says.

Researchers say this study is too limited to draw any final conclusions about how older physicians perform on the job. They would like to look into what else might be influencing the higher mortality rates in patients cared for by older doctors."
 
rebbiputzmaker said:
Hi Mike,

Yes and no, looking further into the article. There are caveats.


"Older doctors may have knowledge that can only be gained by experience, but they cannot just rest on their laurels. They have to keep up with the rapid changes that come with new research and technology.

“The results of our study suggest the critical importance of continuing medical education throughout a doctor’s entire career, regardless of age and experience,” Jena says.

Researchers say this study is too limited to draw any final conclusions about how older physicians perform on the job. They would like to look into what else might be influencing the higher mortality rates in patients cared for by older doctors."
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My wife is a doctor. We talk about this stuff a lot. You are right that it’s complicated. Simple tropes rarely help.
 
amirm said:
Sorry I meant J. AES but J. ASA would be the same. None would allow any paper written on the basis of sighted anecdotal listening tests to be published.

You would have to run controlled tests, run statistical analysis, etc.
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Might be interesting to watch this. The speaker Jonathan Novick was also a Governor of the AES.

 
dallasjustice said:
My wife is a doctor. We talk about this stuff a lot. You are right that it’s complicated. Simple tropes rarely help.
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Healthcare and the changes going on are an interesting conversation.

That's cool Mike at least you know a DR who makes house calls! lol
 
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