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"Measurement data are one thing, and audio quality is another. "

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#1
Which makes me question the correllation of this statement...
 

sergeauckland

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#3
I questioned this 50 years ago, and came to the well considered conclusion that they're two different things.
Measurement data is absolute. It tells you what the equipment does. Audio quality is subjective and different for each of us. Bordeaux or Burgundy? Tea or coffee? Apples or pears?

That's why for audio I care only for the measurements as what I hear is of no value to anyone except me, and even that depends on my mood and how much Talisker I've consumed.

S
 

stereo coffee

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#4
I questioned this 50 years ago, and came to the well considered conclusion that they're two different things.
Measurement data is absolute. It tells you what the equipment does. Audio quality is subjective and different for each of us. Bordeaux or Burgundy? Tea or coffee? Apples or pears?

That's why for audio I care only for the measurements as what I hear is of no value to anyone except me, and even that depends on my mood and how much Talisker I've consumed.

S
It may tell you what the equipment does , but its presently well short of measuring our appreciation of music.
 

sergeauckland

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#5
It may tell you what the equipment does , but its presently well short of measuring our appreciation of music.
But what has the equipment to do with the appreciation of music? It's a tool, like a hammer or a washing machine. I get as much emotional connection with my hifi as I get from my lawn mower.

Music, however, has nothing to do with the equipment it's reproduced on. In most cases, it was composed hundreds of years before reproduction was even possible, so no, no connection as far as I'm concerned.

S
 

Robin L

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#8
Tom Waits once said he prefers the sound of music from an AM radio coming from an apartment window out of a cracked/broken speaker.

So much for subjectivism.

If it's "The Absolute Sound" you seek, there's no good reason to expect it from audio gear. Best to stick to live performance, preferably non-amplified.
 

Shadrach

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#9
I questioned this 50 years ago, and came to the well considered conclusion that they're two different things.
Measurement data is absolute. It tells you what the equipment does. Audio quality is subjective and different for each of us. Bordeaux or Burgundy? Tea or coffee? Apples or pears?

That's why for audio I care only for the measurements as what I hear is of no value to anyone except me, and even that depends on my mood and how much Talisker I've consumed.

S
Yup, I had a completely different stereo system over Christmas as I drank the Tamdue I got given.:)
 

BDWoody

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#10
It may tell you what the equipment does , but its presently well short of measuring our appreciation of music.
I'm only really concerned with what the equipment does... how else should it be evaluated? The equipment doesn't make me feel any kind of way that would be related to music...it's an engineered device.

If I can see via the measurements that a piece of equipment is measurably transparent, then I am free to simply enjoy the music I choose to play. I appreciate when my (audio) equipment can disappear. Fortunately, we can do this fairly predictably.
 

stereo coffee

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#11
But what has the equipment to do with the appreciation of music? It's a tool, like a hammer or a washing machine. I get as much emotional connection with my hifi as I get from my lawn mower.

Music, however, has nothing to do with the equipment it's reproduced on. In most cases, it was composed hundreds of years before reproduction was even possible, so no, no connection as far as I'm concerned.

S
Yes we can appreciate music in ways, not directly tied to hearing it, ..yet another of our skills. However the combination of equipment and our appreciation of music when hearing it, is so much more, than just data about the equipment.

Placing value on people and their expressions of enjoyment when hearing music, more so than data, is a good place to start.
 

Shadrach

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#12
Which makes me question the correllation of this statement...
I don't think they are.
Audio quality isn't really subjective. To ascribe a quality to something one really needs a standard. A subjective standard is fine for an individual but not for anyone else necessarily.
Really you're left having to set an objective standard be that by collective opinion of 'experts' or by measurement. Whichever way you do it you are left with a 'measured' standard, measurement being a guage rather than absolute.
 
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Costas EAR

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#13
I questioned this 50 years ago, and came to the well considered conclusion that they're two different things.
Measurement data is absolute. It tells you what the equipment does. Audio quality is subjective and different for each of us. Bordeaux or Burgundy? Tea or coffee? Apples or pears?

That's why for audio I care only for the measurements as what I hear is of no value to anyone except me, and even that depends on my mood and how much Talisker I've consumed.

S
Exactly. ;)

I even say that what i think i hear can potentially be harmful even to myself, if i follow it.

This was found to be true for many years that i followed my ears and not the measurements. I've spend a lot of money, and without a really good result.

With measurements and without hearing what i bought, which even as a thought was crazy for me some years ago, i managed to build a setup which plays music better than ever, and for everyone, not just me.

So definitely yes, what measures better, plays better, hands down. Audio quality is measured quality, not black magic.
 

BDWoody

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#14
Placing value on people and their expressions of enjoyment when hearing music, more so than data, is a good place to start.
Sure, once you're done evaluating the equipment to be sure it meets your needs...then settle in and enjoy whatever you want.

I don't need to tryout a garden hose to see if I like how it waters. I buy it based on specs...

The salad I make from that garden is what I enjoy...not the hose...
 

Blur

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#15
It's up to the measurements to tell us how well the product is designed and implemented. Only you can decide if you like the sound or not. Let's not draw this out as a subjective vs objective thread. That goes on forever and is not really worth debating here.

Having an education as to what sounds correct or close to the source is important to making this decision. If you are asking whether you simply like a recording / setup or not that is entirely up to you and not easily debated.
 

stereo coffee

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#17
Now the music in this is very repetitive ... but if we can get over that. Would we gain more information, from each of the data sheets or measurements if they were conducted - for each of these cartridges , about how they each may sound , than the ability to hear each when presented to us like this ? Is it worthy of a Poll question ?
 

Wes

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#18
Tom Waits once said he prefers the sound of music from an AM radio coming from an apartment window out of a cracked/broken speaker.
...
was this the the opposite loft where the lights flickered
and the country music station played
??
 

stereo coffee

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#19
Which makes me question the correllation of this statement...
Here is another example - in this case comparing measurements on one hand and sound on the other with two models of speaker:

It indicates to me the OP statement and topic, is very valid, requiring us to hear equipment - not just measure, a combination of both IMO then gives us needed information to properly assess.
"Measurement data are one thing, and audio quality is another. "

First the measurements (- sorry from different sources )
https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/125677-measurement-of-kef-1042/
https://www.hifinews.com/content/yamaha-ns-1000m-loudspeakers-lab-report

Forum comments on hearing each, one forum comment saying its a night and day difference
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/to...-yamaha-ns-1000/?tab=comments#comment-4453333

and how each actually sounds. Which do you prefer in the context of the video ? - the Kef to me was preferable.
 
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Robin L

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#20
was this the the opposite loft where the lights flickered
and the country music station played
??
I'm pretty sure it was a Mexican Radio.

A favorite Dylan line:

" . . . I'm listening to Neil Young, I gotta turn up the sound
Someone's always yellin' "Turn it down" . . ."
 
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