• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Measurement and Review of Schiit BiFrost Multibit DAC

Sukie

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
928
Likes
1,469
Location
UK
I've heard the Bifrost 2 and have the Modi Multibit and I think both sound good. Compared to my Topping D50s which is a recommended Dac hear I think my Mimby sounds every bit as good just different. Yes, it is more euphonic with a musical colored sound while the D50s is a more clinical sound but still very good. Measurements only tell part of the story and just like some headphones that don't look good from a measurement standpoint but sound really good, the same can be said for Dacs.

Now if you like a clinical no-frills sounding Dac then the ones coming out of China are great (and I like them to) but the Schiit Multibit Dacs offer are different signature and flavor that some people like myself enjoy. If you're using good recordings and a good amp they can sound very nice and I can understand if you don't like their sound signature but I don't see how anyone could say they sound flat out bad. I didn't really start to appreciate my Mimby until I used quality recordings and then it sounded wonderful with both my JDS Labs EL Amp and the SMSL SP200.
You've been around here long enough to know that your statements contained in this post are going to provoke a reaction. You are, of course, entitled to make these statements, but maybe they'd be better posted on a forum where they would be received positively.

We should be in the business of posting things that enhance conversation and debate rather than things that are deliberately proactive.
 

Music1969

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
4,676
Likes
2,849
I've tried searching but it doesn't appear a BiFrost 2 has been sent in to @amirm yet, is that correct?
 

Zensō

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 11, 2020
Messages
2,753
Likes
6,766
Location
California
Why? Do their APx555 (same machine Amir has) measurements look bad?
C8AEE0F8-FED7-4104-BB44-A5DE92029B5D.jpeg


B772096B-3F37-4711-8E36-83AE40660A0F.jpeg
 

MingChops

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2020
Messages
97
Likes
94
To satisfy my curiosity. The Bifrost 2 1khz tone registered about +12dB, and in the Modius test it's about +6dB. - So would the fact that about half the signal rate is being put through the Modius be a factor in it's better looking graph?
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,111
Likes
14,774
To satisfy my curiosity. The Bifrost 2 1khz tone registered about +12dB, and in the Modius test it's about +6dB. - So would the fact that about half the signal rate is being put through the Modius be a factor in it's better looking graph?

No idea why Schiits own charts show the 1k above 0db, but the Modius graph from Schiit looks pretty similar to Amir's own chart (that goes to 0dB). The Bifriost is just not a clean DAC, full stop.

EDIT- and actually- see Amir's review on p1 of this thread with a 0db 1khz signal and the Modius review too. Both of those at 0db and its obvious, even with the older AP machine graphs , that the 2 are both comparable and at the same time not in the same ballpark as far as transparency goes.
 
Last edited:

MingChops

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2020
Messages
97
Likes
94
Thanks so the different signal level does effect the distortion by a seemingly similar amount, however it doesn't change the pattern or amount of it in anyway.

Still tempted to try a BF2, have a Modius already - can't fault it. But there's an itch and a curiosity that needs to be scratched!
 

Zensō

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 11, 2020
Messages
2,753
Likes
6,766
Location
California
Thanks so the different signal level does effect the distortion by a seemingly similar amount, however it doesn't change the pattern or amount of it in anyway.

Still tempted to try a BF2, have a Modius already - can't fault it. But there's an itch and a curiosity that needs to be scratched!
You might like how it sounds, but be aware that if you’re hearing coloration it will most likely be caused by distortion (the FR is ruler flat.) That said, at normal listening levels, it’s unlikely you’d be able to pick out any differences in a blind, level-matched test.
 

MingChops

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2020
Messages
97
Likes
94
You might like how it sounds, but be aware that if you’re hearing coloration it will most likely be caused by distortion (the FR is ruler flat.) That said, at normal listening levels, it’s unlikely you’d be able to pick out any differences in a blind, level-matched test.

Well I really even as I type this, think I shouldn't be! But, the difference is an unquestionable improvement.

To set some background context, I couldn't really hear a gnat's chuff of difference between the Node 2i internal DAC and the Schiit Modius. Significant A/B testing and you could be arguing a case either way in truth - i.e I would never in a million years know which was in use.
Now this always surprised me, I was expecting big things from it because we have 2 DACs that pretty much bookend the performance table here on ASR - so if measurements could indicate a sound difference you'd expect these 2 DACs at opposing ends of the spectrum would yield something. But reality was disappointingly different.

However moving on to the BF2 vs Modius, and I won't wax lyrical on here (I'm not that stupid!), but I will say genuinely you can hear the A/B difference. It is still far from a night and day switch, none of this 'veil is lifted' or other hyperbolic audiophile tripe, but there's both a touch more detail (the texture to a guitar pluck as a good example and something you can easily identify going A/B), and for sure more mass, body and depth to vocals (vocals by far the the biggest difference - they should unquestionably thinner on the Modius).
Do I think I could pick out which is playing blind, good question - I don't think so, not reliably anyway. It's still small differences, the Modius still sounds great in it's own right, but genuinley there's just this realism that wasn't there before especially to as said to the vocals.

So the conclusion is there is a much bigger difference between the BF2 vs Modius, than ever there was between the Modius vs Node 2i. - Which to my mind seems to go against what the measurements would indicate? Now I know the BF2 has not been measured, but it's a recent Schiit product so I expect it to do well enough, likely closer to the Modius than the Node 2i.
If people want to think it's my love of distortion, sure, I don't actually mind and I'm honestly not trying to provoke a fight. My instinct is that I think it has to be something to do with the proprietary filtering, which I believe is both time and phase optimised?
I consider myself a pretty critical person (hence being on here), but it's exceeded my expectations. I was very nervous I wouldn't hear any difference as is the usual case when I've tested other D/S DACs.

As for level matching, yes they were - well, they both produced identical measured REW levels (UMIK-1 mic) which means they are within a whisker. I absolutely could not tell a change, the REW graph is accurate, so maybe not level matched to the way ASR would typically do things with a voltage check - but let's be honest it's decently close enough.
Now interestingly I ran multiple REW sweeps and the BF2 would consistently show extra levels in the same few spots?
-Is it distortion? I doubt it, these weren't loud sweeps by any stretch (KEF R5 speakers - pretty damn good and very capable!), so yeah it's a marvellous DAC it really is!!
-Is it a result of the better filtering ad thus does this imply more signal is being preserved? An interesting question I think, we have a clearly repeatable difference.

(yes I am planning to fix the 100hz null with some room treatment behind the speakers with GIK T100's :) )

IMG_0036.jpeg
 

BDWoody

Chief Cat Herder
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
7,079
Likes
23,519
Location
Mid-Atlantic, USA. (Maryland)
Do I think I could pick out which is playing blind, good question - I don't think so, not reliably anyway. It's still small differences, the Modius still sounds great in it's own right, but genuinley there's just this realism that wasn't there before especially to as said to the vocals.

So the conclusion is there is a much bigger difference between the BF2 vs Modius, than ever there was between the Modius vs Node 2i. - Which to my mind seems to go against what the measurements would indicate?


So, why not do a proper blind test. This kind of sighted, not-really level matched 'test' isn't going to make much headway. There is a reason controls are expected if someone is claiming the differences you claim.
 

MingChops

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2020
Messages
97
Likes
94
So, why not do a proper blind test. This kind of sighted, not-really level matched 'test' isn't going to make much headway. There is a reason controls are expected if someone is claiming the differences you claim.

Because I live on my own and I have better things to do than put bizarre wanted adds in the paper for a remote control button presser.

To clarify, on an A/B test there's a tangible difference, you notice the vocals shrink and change as the single biggest difference (the rest is frankly negligible) - point being I would be able to tell when inputs were changed (as long as it's in the midst of a good vocal passage). I think most people with any reasonable level of hearing would.
Where I said blind, what I meant was if I walked into a room and didn't know which was playing. Both sound great and it's not night and day by any stretch, so that blind scenario yeah I wouldn't pretend to know or imply I would.
 

BDWoody

Chief Cat Herder
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
7,079
Likes
23,519
Location
Mid-Atlantic, USA. (Maryland)
I live on my own and I have better things to do than put bizarre wanted adds in the paper for a remote control button presser.

Not sure what that has to do with making it so you can't see what's playing... I've tested myself by mixing up the cables after using a multimeter to match levels. You make it like it's some insurmountable problem. I didn't need to further tighten the controls with a blind helper, as I learned what I needed to with those simple steps.

Measurements make no predictions about what one might hear in a sighted test.
 

Veri

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
9,598
Likes
12,040
To clarify, on an A/B test there's a tangible difference, you notice the vocals shrink and change as the single biggest difference (the rest is frankly negligible) - point being I would be able to tell when inputs were changed (as long as it's in the midst of a good vocal passage). I think most people with any reasonable level of hearing would.
Sure, if you ask them to really listen for it, they'll hear it. Psychoacoustics.
 

MingChops

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2020
Messages
97
Likes
94
Not sure what that has to do with making it so you can't see what's playing... I've tested myself by mixing up the cables after using a multimeter to match levels. You make it like it's some insurmountable problem. I didn't need to further tighten the controls with a blind helper, as I learned what I needed to with those simple steps.

Measurements make no predictions about what one might hear in a sighted test.

Because how am I going to cable the system up, and change inputs, all without me knowing. There's a practical side to this sort of testing, I'm not sure how I would achieve blind testing as a one man show? Bear in mind I have an amp and a remote control, that's it, I'm not a pseudo lab here!

As for level matching, I wouldn't know how to, and I'm not shoving probes into my (expensive to me) amp! And even if the output is different, how do I change it? I'll need to buy some kind of device to act as a pot? What about the implications of adding that device in to the audio chain?

Look I've tried to be as objective as I can, and I laid out already that I understand it falls short of objective testing - so chalk it down to whatever you want (or move on!). Now counter to most subjective stuff I've done a what I can to temper this with a REW sweep, this is the best I can do to check levels and more than most do that is for sure! As a result I found interestingly there's a couple of small areas in the frequency response that the BF2 repeatedly shows as higher.
So instead of fixating on the voltage matched blind test (which you and I both know isn't going to happen for practical and equipment reasons), would it not be more fruitful to instead ponder the question I raised - is this frequency response difference a potential change due to the more sophisticated filtering? Does my 'test' (as shit and micky mouse as it might be to some) go in some way to showing why I believe I can hear an A/B difference (I don't care if you believe me or not).
 
Top Bottom