Meaningful sonic upgrade possibilities over Arya Organic headphones

[flint350]

I have had my Sennheiser HD600's for years now and they still serve. However, I eventually added the Hifiman Arya Organics when they were still $1100 or so (now they are mid ($900.) Their supposed treble accentuation has never bothered my tinnitus hampered ears and I like them a lot though my Topping DX9. Based on that, my question is, were I to budget a max of $3500 to get a "significant" sonic upgrade over the Arya, what would it be? Or is there one? I realize much of it may go into comfort and quality of design, like wood cupped Calderas or similar, but I am seeking an improved audio experience. Possibly not a big enough budget to get this and I don't need to spend Susvara level that supposedly has brought some reviewers to tears. Though I would go to $4k if that were possible. Suggestions welcome.

 

[majingotan]

There's never something significant once you're way past diminishing returns. Seems to me you don't like the Arya Organic if you're still chasing the dragon. I don't think you'll gain anything much at all from the Arya Organic to something like the Caldera Open/Closed or even the OG Susvara which I own BTW IMHO. Save that $4K or put it to an ETF/mutual funds or something that grows over time

 

[flint350]

Your assumption that I no longer enjoy the Arya Organic is incorrect. I was simply curious if there is another level of observable sonic improvement out there. I'm not chasing dragons of immeasurable differences. However, many have claimed/reviewed and raved about the clearly improved performance of several high end headphones. Possibly these comparisons are similar to various DAC reviews I've seen where the numbers are "way past diminishing returns." Given your opinion on this, which I appreciate of course, I assume you arrived at owning Susvara as a starting point and did not have an intermediate headphone from which you sought improvement, however slight. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

 

[DVDdoug]

I was simply curious if there is another level of observable sonic improvement out there.

With headphones "personal preference" is a big factor and you'll have to decide if different headphones are an improvement.

Most of the "sound characteristic" is frequency response. It would help if you know what's lacking in your current headphones or what changes in frequency response you're looking for. Or to a large extent frequency response can be tweaked with EQ. The exception is that some headphones have weak bass and it may not be able to boost it enough without driving the headphones or headphone amp into distortion.

As you can see from looking at the price and "recommended" columns in the ASR review index, with headphones there is almost no correlation between cost and sound quality. Probably 99% of headphones are less than your $4K limit so with that kind of budget you can choose almost any headphone you want, and the odds are that your favorite headphone won't be nearly that expensive, especially if you don't know the cost.

 

[flint350]

Thanks, appreciate the input.

 

[Curupira]

Thanks, appreciate the input.

Take the former advice to heart when upgratitis starts gnawing at you. Consumerism is rampart inside the industry and the audiophile hobby (with the hobby itself possibly being just that): the road of want, i.e, the dragon, is never ending, and when the new toy's enthusiasm dies down, you'll soon want to chase another product. And there's nothing wrong with change and the search for new experiences, as long as you're aware of their cause and, specifically, that you won't be chasing objective improvements.

All that said, straying away from the research and drinking the audiophile kool-aid, you may search for different experiences in other presentations like of Focal headphones and top of the shelf dynamic headphones. Not because they're better or worse objectively, but because those oval Hifimans tend to have a very characteristic sound to them that comes, I think, from their format and the way and distance the driver is set up: little to no damping with a enormous driver sat a bit far away from the ears. IME they had an "ethereal" quality that reminded me of those old square STAX headphones.

Focals and even the HD 6X0 headphones, on the other hand, have a more familiar presentation of sound in my personal experience. A middle ground in my collection was the HE-6SE, also reviewed here. It didn't had the harsh treble attributed to the oval Hifiman's and sounded very natural for me.

 

[Subob]

Having listened to lots of Hifiman headphones at Canjam, including both Susvara and Susvara unveiled, my favourite was actually the Arya Organic.

With that in mind, we possibly have the same preference? My current end game headphone would be the Meze Elite. The timbre on instruments sounds so life like to me! Everything I chucked at them, using my ibasso dx300, sounded wonderful. Comfort is superb too.


My ultimate end game is the Raal Imannis, but that ain't ever going to happen, obviously due to finances, and also because I very much doubt any DAP is ever going to do them full justice, lol.

Good luck.

 

[Subob]

Your assumption that I no longer enjoy the Arya Organic is incorrect. I was simply curious if there is another level of observable sonic improvement out there. I'm not chasing dragons of immeasurable differences. However, many have claimed/reviewed and raved about the clearly improved performance of several high end headphones. Possibly these comparisons are similar to various DAC reviews I've seen where the numbers are "way past diminishing returns." Given your opinion on this, which I appreciate of course, I assume you arrived at owning Susvara as a starting point and did not have an intermediate headphone from which you sought improvement, however slight. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

Are you able to get to a local headphone shop, or a headphone show like CanJam?

Reviews can help give a general impression of sound signature, but remember, you rarely see a bad review.

There really is no substitute for listening yourself to find out what you like from what you're not so keen on.

 

[sonitus mirus]

With headphones "personal preference" is a big factor and you'll have to decide if different headphones are an improvement.

Most of the "sound characteristic" is frequency response. It would help if you know what's lacking in your current headphones or what changes in frequency response you're looking for. Or to a large extent frequency response can be tweaked with EQ. The exception is that some headphones have weak bass and it may not be able to boost it enough without driving the headphones or headphone amp into distortion.

As you can see from looking at the price and "recommended" columns in the ASR review index, with headphones there is almost no correlation between cost and sound quality. Probably 99% of headphones are less than your $4K limit so with that kind of budget you can choose almost any headphone you want, and the odds are that your favorite headphone won't be nearly that expensive, especially if you don't know the cost.

It’s not immediately clear, but wouldn’t cost be a factor when making a recommendation? That’s different from simply picking a favorite or recommending something if cost is no object or unknown. I may be making unfounded assumptions about how recommendations are actually determined.

 

[Soria Moria]

I have had my Sennheiser HD600's for years now and they still serve. However, I eventually added the Hifiman Arya Organics when they were still $1100 or so (now they are mid ($900.) Their supposed treble accentuation has never bothered my tinnitus hampered ears and I like them a lot though my Topping DX9. Based on that, my question is, were I to budget a max of $3500 to get a "significant" sonic upgrade over the Arya, what would it be? Or is there one? I realize much of it may go into comfort and quality of design, like wood cupped Calderas or similar, but I am seeking an improved audio experience. Possibly not a big enough budget to get this and I don't need to spend Susvara level that supposedly has brought some reviewers to tears. Though I would go to $4k if that were possible. Suggestions welcome.

Arya Unveiled seems like an upgrade. Very smooth upper treble

 

[flint350]

In fact I had considered the Meze Elite after reading some reviews both online and youtube (Josh Valour, etc). However, as someone else suggested, finding them locally to audition is near impossible, which is why I posted here. I understand the upgraditis argument, but many seem to make it and then list the 3 or 4 or more headphones they have and how the sound changes/improves. That's all I'm asking - is there a solid difference from the Arya Organic sound signature in a different and likely more costly pair such as the Elites, Calderas, etc.

Having listened to lots of Hifiman headphones at Canjam, including both Susvara and Susvara unveiled, my favourite was actually the Arya Organic.

With that in mind, we possibly have the same preference? My current end game headphone would be the Meze Elite. The timbre on instruments sounds so life like to me! Everything I chucked at them, using my ibasso dx300, sounded wonderful. Comfort is superb too.

 

[Subob]

In fact I had considered the Meze Elite after reading some reviews both online and youtube (Josh Valour, etc). However, as someone else suggested, finding them locally to audition is near impossible, which is why I posted here. I understand the upgraditis argument, but many seem to make it and then list the 3 or 4 or more headphones they have and how the sound changes/improves. That's all I'm asking - is there a solid difference from the Arya Organic sound signature in a different and likely more costly pair such as the Elites, Calderas, etc.

Well I might get told off for this on here, but here goes anyway, lol.

I think some of the sound signature differences can also be to do with synergy with what's driving the headphones. I listened to Meze Elites through the DCS Lina stack at Canjam for example, and to my ears the DCS sounded anaemic! Yet on my dx300 I love the Elites! Work that one out, in terms of cost, lol.
Tbf, it's likely 'brain burn in' with my dx300, although I don't like every headphone I've tried with it.

Another example. I do not like the sound of Focals on my dx300. They all tend to sound dry and bright to me. Yet I listening to the Utopias on a very high end DAC and Amp ( we're talking 6 figures here) and they sounded phenomenal.

Bare in mind these were show conditions, and you can't read too much into my, wholly subjective, take aways.

There is though some useful findings for me I feel, that may prove helpful.

1. Cost isn't everything.....I bought the ZMF Bokehs for example as I simply prefer how they sound to me versus the much more expensive ZMF Caldera closed, and any of the closed options from Dan Clark Audio or Audeze.
If I was limited to a Hifiman only choice for example, it would be the Arya Organic, rather than the crazy price of the Susvaras, which to me have a horrible treble spike to them (maybe that can be EQ'ed out? ).

2. Where possible.... audition with the source that you'll be using with the headphones. I've found that synergy, especially if you don't play around with EQ, really can make a big difference.


In conclusion. I can't tell you that the Meze Elites will be an upgrade for you over your Hifiman Arya Organic. Only you can decide that through listening to them. I will say, however, that instrument timbre on the Elites sounds as close to live and realistic that I've heard on a headphone. But that's just my take.
Price alone does not dictate what sounds 'best', that's for sure, although the Elites also have a far superior build quality to any offerings from Hifiman IMO. In fact, most of the Meze line up has exceptional build quality and comfort...not counting the ridiculous Lirics of course

Good luck. I hope you can somehow find a way of auditioning any headphone you're considering as an upgrade on what you already have. From my experience mind, the Arya Organics are certainly a very nice headphone indeed.