• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

me geithain rl-901k2 vs ATC SCM150ASL vs Genelec 8351b + W371A vs Ultimate Preamp

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 4708
  • Start date Start date
Directivity makes a difference (measurable) also at low frequencies, but different does not necessarily mean improved.

When the location of the sound source is very close to boundaries - as when a bass-system is placed along the front wall - the wall in itself becomes part of the source, and thus will not be a problem rather than acting as a part of the system and providing both gain and improved frequency response smoothness. In this situation, a bass source with reduced radiation to the rear will not give any improvement.

The 100-200Hz range is tricky in small rooms. A speaker system with separate bass-system placed close to boundaries combined with main speakers with full-range directivity control makes it a lot easier. Truly good performance requires acoustic absorption in that range, regardless of what speaker system is in use.

In my case the speakers will be very close to the wall (speaker's back is close to the wall). It makes me question the need for cardioid or cardioid like bass.
I am also having second thoughts about separate boxes like W371A and 8361A. Makes ATC SCM150ASL plus external DSP for room equalization more attractive.
W371A plus 8361A requires a lot of wires, separate stands for 8361A, etc. I want very good sound but ergonomics in a home matter too.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In my case the speakers will be very close to the wall (speaker's back is close to the wall). It makes me question the need for cardioid or cardioid like bass.
I am also having second thoughts about separate boxes like W371A and 8361A. Makes ATC SCM150ASL plus external DSP for room equalization more attractive.
W371A plus 8361A requires a lot of wires, separate stands for 8361A, etc. I want very good sound but ergonomics in a home matter too.

Why not use the W371 as the stand for the 8351b?
 
How stable would they be? I live in California (earthquake prone).

With the isopods, they're the most stable speakers I own. They're screwed into the isopods, and the isopods are quite sticky. Of course a big enough earth quake will topple any speaker, even big towers ;) Also, they're meant to sit on top of the W371 so that the woofers are right next to each other and you get to keep the point source behavior of the Ones.
 
But I enjoy reading about stuff, I just have to remind myself how I came to have what I have now - a 2 year search for my "last speakers" and that I have yet to actually hear any I prefer yet means whatever I consider has to be auditioned.
I auditioned the horns I bought in a different room but since they couple the bass horn to the corner and the room was quite like mine I thought it was OK.
I was pretty sure I would prefer them to my existing ones but they are different rather than better, so I run both, depending on how I am feeling.
View attachment 110155View attachment 110154

I love the look of those Goldmund speakers. What attracted you to them initially, or was it a cold audition? Also what else did you compare them against besides the Nautilus?

Would love to hear a Goldmund someday, but I’ve never even seen them over here in the states.
 
In another thread I saw the SPL measurements for 8361A. How is the SPL measurement done? Is that a sweep or pink noise?
Here is where I am coming from: With a W371A subwoofer, when crossing over at 200Hz (for sake of argument) should I expect better 200-320Hz (320 is the crossover to mid) SPL than depicted in that measurement?

I believe Genelec uses > 100Hz for their max spl tests.

From what I understand, the W371 can be crossed over anywhere below 500Hz. Probably the higher you can crossover the better, not only for spl, but because The Ones lose their horizontal directivity a little below 500Hz.
 
I believe Genelec uses > 100Hz for their max spl tests.

From what I understand, the W371 can be crossed over anywhere below 500Hz. Probably the higher you can crossover the better, not only for spl, but because The Ones lose their horizontal directivity a little below 500Hz.

If you cross over above 320 (xover between the bass on 8361 and mid) there is no point in having the bass on the monitors... The system becomes a 3 way - sub + mid + tweeter.
 
If you cross over above 320 (xover between the bass on 8361 and mid) there is no point in having the bass on the monitors... The system becomes a 3 way - sub + mid + tweeter.
Oops - you'd pay a lot to get a big One with large woofer area and then don't use it. Doesn't sound economic to me.
 
If you cross over above 320 (xover between the bass on 8361 and mid) there is no point in having the bass on the monitors... The system becomes a 3 way - sub + mid + tweeter.

GLM 4 sets the crossover for w371 between 150-250Hz by default. Manually you can go higher or lower.
 
I love the look of those Goldmund speakers. What attracted you to them initially, or was it a cold audition? Also what else did you compare them against besides the Nautilus?

Would love to hear a Goldmund someday, but I’ve never even seen them over here in the states.
I was working in France and found that a dealer ther had a set of Wilson WAMM speakers for sale used. All the magazines back then had been going on about how wonderful they were - best speakers ever etc., so I arranged to go up for an audition, this was around 25 years ago. I had a good income at the time and they were inside the budget I had set for my "speaker for life", new would have been far too much.
The dealer in question, now retired, was the French importer of Wilson at the time and had all their models.
Anyway I auditioned the WAMM and was relatively umimpressed, given the hype.
In the huge listening area, effectively a roofed in courtyard in a French country house, he also had Goldmund Apologue and Analogue speakers set up so I had a listen to them too.
The difference was stark IMO. Instrumental timbre much more realistic and a cleaner non boomy bass. I actually found the Analogue more convincing than the Apologue.
Anyway I decided I probably should get the Analogue and asked if I could compare it to the B&W Nautilus, which had a convincingly plausible engineering background to its design and I loved the styling.
They arranged to do the demo, they were not B&W dealers, and by the time they had borrowed the Nautilus and so forth the Analogue/Apologue models had been superceeded by the Epilog so I listened to them as well.
The final audition between Nautilus and Epilog was more a question of being astonished by the Epilog 1 on its own than disappointment in the Nautilus, which, with the 8 channels of high quality amplification it required, was much more expensive. I now know that less expensive amps would have probably been fine but not then. The Nautilus is active 4-way but only the crossover is supplied with the speaker allowing the owner choice of power amp - probably a wise marketing decision back then.
Anyway, the Epilog blew my socks off and, whilst expensive by any sensible standard, was not above budget and I preferred it to my previous favourite, the Analogue, even though at the time only the Epilog 1 module was available for audition.
The Epilog system was modular. The main module is the Epilog 1 which can be used on its own. There is an Epilog 2 which can be used as a pair to lower the bass and improve power handling. There is also an Epilog 3 Sub, so there is a sequence of potential speakers one can make with them.
Epilog 1, Epilog 1 plus Epilog 3 sub, Epilog 1&2 (which is what I ordered) ditto with Epilog 3 sub, full epilog system with 2 epilog 1s per side, and Epilog 2 rotated 90 degrees between then and th whole shebang mounted on an Epilog 3 per side.
They are machined metal enclosures and a range of frames allowed the various combinations to be bolted together.

My only disappointment has been the Epiframe 2 despite a complex construction and being bolted together using damping gaskets is a bit resonant.

They were expensive, but not ridiculously so considering their construction, which is much more expensive to make than anything else I had seen until the Magicos many years later.


Goldmund have increased their prices absurdly since then IMO, basically the more expensive the better in the high end in their biggest markets, and I would not consider them now.
OTOH they do have an importer into the UK now and all the speakers have been DSP active for some time (the last evolution of the now replaced Epilog was active) and I heard some at the last HiFi News exhibition. I thought them the best in show but far too expensive.
I generally highly rate their speakers but the electronics are not worth the money - though the enclosures are made to a quality level I haven't seen from any other maker.
 
In my case the speakers will be very close to the wall (speaker's back is close to the wall). It makes me question the need for cardioid or cardioid like bass.
I am also having second thoughts about separate boxes like W371A and 8361A. Makes ATC SCM150ASL plus external DSP for room equalization more attractive.
W371A plus 8361A requires a lot of wires, separate stands for 8361A, etc. I want very good sound but ergonomics in a home matter too.

In this case you can at least simulate LF responce with Room Sim and find out "how much bass" you will need really if you will shape FR with DSP anyway.
Also, if you still think about ATC, their 110ASL are suited for soffit mounting which can be useful in case of "very close to the wall". Ergonomics of soffit mounted speakers in dedicated room is really best that i can imagine. But it's not very domestic appearance ...
For Noisia studio they are good enough in LF department.
 
Last edited:
In my case the speakers will be very close to the wall (speaker's back is close to the wall). It makes me question the need for cardioid or cardioid like bass.
I am also having second thoughts about separate boxes like W371A and 8361A. Makes ATC SCM150ASL plus external DSP for room equalization more attractive.
W371A plus 8361A requires a lot of wires, separate stands for 8361A, etc. I want very good sound but ergonomics in a home matter too.
Good morning. Finally the hearing between genelec vs atc was done ??? Tell us about the results.thanks
 
Finally, I got around to listening to some speakers I had on my list.
What happened? 2 things
  • I bought the Stax SR009BK + 727 solid-state amp and I have a great time with it. Love it
  • Work, work, work...
Will write up my impressions soon.
 
Context - my hearing is pretty good and sensitive; I don't listen to very loud music.
My NHT XD 2.2 is a very good system IMO. I like it very much and I am in no rush to replace it; unless I find some speakers that wow me.
If / when I buy new speakers, the limit is 30k$.
I'd like to reward good sound, good drivers, and real audio science with my money.
The speakers I have listened to so far are:
  • Adam Audio 3/5 S/H
  • Dutch&Dutch 8c
  • Genelec 8351/8361 W371
Believe it or not, I have not yet listened to the ACT SCM150 so far. At this point, no dealer I have access to has them in stock.

I hope people will not take my subjective impressions personally.

Adam Audio were unimpressive IMO. While some clarity is there and they have decent imaging they are no better than my NHT XD 2.2 at the SPL I usually listen to. They look great and play fairly loud - the H ones play quite loud.

D&D sound pretty good. However, even for me, they don't play loud enough without distortion. At some point they struggle; crossing 8 inches mid to 1-inch tweeter is poor engineering. Physics can't be changed with DSP. They have the best looks of all pro speakers I have seen and the build screams quality.

The Genelecs.
I was convinced their sound has been greatly exaggerated on this site. Fudge and popsicles, it can't be true!
I found out first hand they are excellent speakers. These speakers are a clear upgrade for my NHTs. Huge soundstage, clarity, and kick-ass software to tune them. The speakers can play loud enough for me without distorting. Great dynamics, their sound reproduction is resolving on any music from classical to Jazz and rock. Super! The 8361s are huge - something you only understand when you see them.
The Genelecs are not only next class sound quality they are next class weird looking. I kind of like them.

After listening to D&D and the Genelecs I start to understand why Amir is so unequivocally supportive of speakers with good directivity and cardioid. Part of me thinks I should just buy the Genelecs - part of me thinks the Geithains can be better because of cardioid and good drivers.
The Geithains take the room out of the equation but so do the W371 + Genelec software (almost).

I am less interested now in the ATCs; very, very interested in the Geithain 801K. Does anyone know if they can be auditioned in California?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top Bottom