me geithain rl-901k2 vs ATC SCM150ASL vs Genelec 8351b + W371A vs Ultimate Preamp

[thewas]

Correct me if I am wrong anybody but I seem to remember in a loudspeaker listening comparison at JBL(?) one of the speakers auditioned was the sound stick 2.1 system.

In the blind test it got a much higher mark than the sighted test. The order of preference was not altered but the difference in sound reported by the listeners was much bigger when they could see what they were listening to - and this was obviously a bias that was deceiving them.

Here is that test described http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html

 

[Objectivist01]

(As one can see in my signature) I have an NHT XDA 2.2 system from 2010(ish?). I enjoyed it for all these years - it is a very good system in my opinion. However, upgradatis has bit me again and I am looking to buy a new system. On my short list I have:

1. ATC SCM150ASL - 20k$ + an external DSP box like SHD.
   Here I like the sound, drivers, look and simplicity. Active, analogue crossover and AB class amps.
2. me-geithain rl-901k2
   Cardiod and good measurements. High WAF given it is one box.
3. Genelec 8351b + w371A or just 8361A
   Ease of use is very appealing for this system. I like the dispersion measurements. Yet to hear this system (in the next days or few weeks).
   Not impressed with the distortion measurements nor the loudness. Not impressed with the drivers, the build nor components, it looks a bit generic to me. The biggest gripe I have are the small(ish) oval bass drivers in both 8351B and 8361A. In the SPL graphs they "fall" behind - that's the weakest link of this system imo.
4. Ultimate Preamp (5k$) + ATI amp (5-7 k$) + Alpha Divine to build a system somewhat better than the one I have. Or - maybe there is another speaker I can use with the Ultimate Preamp.
   This build gives me a lot of flexibility in terms of DSP.
   The negative here - there will be a lot of wires and boxes. The speaker build is not to my liking due to 7" mid that has to be crossed to a 1" tweeter. Either the tweeter will be strained when crossover is low (2kHz) or the mid loses dispersion (2.5Khz or above).

What's your opinion on these 3 systems? What's your experience with any of the above?

Rl 901k is the best speaker I have heard. Had compared it directly against older genelecs like 1031 and 1030. Dont know how it shines in this forum though

 

[Pearljam5000]

If the the 8351B had one 8 inch bass driver instead of 2x4 inch drivers would it have had more bass? Is the Ones design compromised?

 

[Hephaestus]

If the the 8351B had one 8 inch bass driver instead of 2x4 inch drivers would it have had more bass? Is the Ones design compromised?

Every loudspeaker is a some sort of compromise. The Ones are mainly designed for nearfield use with the exception of 8361A which can be used in midfield as well.

Compromises chosen will depend on what is the intended application for the speaker.

 

[FeddyLost]

If the the 8351B had one 8 inch bass driver instead of 2x4 inch drivers would it have had more bass?

For sure. 2x2x4 is ~ 16 sq.inch, 8" woofer is ~ 50 sq. inch. But there's almost 8" in 8361 ...
I think Barefoot-like composition with 2 opposite subwoofers on sides would help, but then designers would have to change something else - maybe midbass drivers, maybe coax midrange cone. Price will rise, reliability will be compromised, as thermal and mechanical stresses will be very high.
And then we'll have humongous coax midfield with kilowatt inputs, rarely needed in real life. Anyway, they already have S360A ...

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

If the the 8351B had one 8 inch bass driver instead of 2x4 inch drivers would it have had more bass? Is the Ones design compromised?

It has two 101x218mm drivers with a combined surface area of 68 sq in, roughly equivalent to the surface area of a 9 inch woofer.

 

[Deleted member 4708]

Rl 901k is the best speaker I have heard. Had compared it directly against older genelecs like 1031 and 1030. Dont know how it shines in this forum though

I tried contacting Geithain - no reply. Also - no dealers in USA as far as I know.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I tried contacting Geithain - no reply. Also - no dealers in USA as far as I know.

I must say my tendency is certainly to expect locally made products to be the best value, particularly considering the cost of shipping something as big and heavy of a premium loudspeaker.
I would imagine ATC, Geithain, larger Genelec and Neumann to be better value here in Europe and JBL Barefoot and so forth be a better value choice in the USA.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

I tried contacting Geithain - no reply. Also - no dealers in USA as far as I know.

They replied to me last year when I contacts them. If you want to place an order just email and indicate you’re interested in doing so. You buy direct from them if you’re anywhere outside Germany.

I’ve no idea on return policy in the event you don’t like them but I assume they have one as dictated by EU law. The high cost of shipping back to Germany and probably a 15% restock fee on an already extremely expensive speaker makes this seem like a very unattractive option, however.

 

[Frank Dernie]

They replied to me last year when I contacts them. If you want to place an order just email and indicate you’re interested in doing so. You buy direct from them if you’re anywhere outside Germany.

The importer to the UK is near me and there is at least 1 pro dealer with demo speakers in the London area, so not all countries buy direct.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

I’m just repeating what they told me

 

[Deleted member 4708]

I’m just repeating what they told me

Third time I hope it's a charm. Will contact them again.

 

[Deleted member 4708]

I just bought the 05/2020 edition of Stereoplay where they reviewed the 8361A and some Geithain. When delivered, (1-2 days) I will post any interesting findings here.

 

[Pearljam5000]

It has two 101x218mm drivers with a combined surface area of 68 sq in, roughly equivalent to the surface area of a 9 inch woofer.

Thanks, my question is, can 2 smaller woofers with the exact same surface area of a bigger single unit woofer be as good and as accurate and will have the same amount of bass output as a bigger single woofer.

 

[Purité Audio]

Not just area but displacement but yes.
Keith

 

[thewas]

I just bought the 05/2020 edition of Stereoplay where they reviewed the 8361A and some Geithain. When delivered, (1-2 days) I will post any interesting findings here.

I had the issue, the tested Geithain 921K got the highest rating of a "bookshelf" speaker ever, even higher than of its larger and older sibling, the famous 901K.
A good friend of mine got soon after his pair 921K which replaced his also great Neumann KH420 and he enjoys the Geithain more and not only for their easier to place in room cardioid bass. It's a shame that they are so hard to find and hear at dealers even here in Germany.
Edit: Here is the review PDF https://www.me-geithain.de/de/assets/media/products/studio/RL921K/Stereoplay 05-2020 RL921K.pdf

 

[Deleted member 4708]

Uh oh. The dealer called me - it's going to be at least 2 weeks before I can audition the speakers. Probably 3. There is a pair of W371A + 8351B now in LA and they will be brought to Northern California in 2-3 weeks.

 

[Deleted member 4708]

I had the issue, the tested Geithain 921K got the highest rating of a "bookshelf" speaker ever, even higher than of its larger and older sibling, the famous 901K.
A good friend of mine got soon after his pair 921K which replaced his also great Neumann KH420 and he enjoys the Geithain more and not only for their easier to place in room cardioid bass. It's a shame that they are so hard to find and hear at dealers even here in Germany.
Edit: Here is the review PDF https://www.me-geithain.de/de/assets/media/products/studio/RL921K/Stereoplay 05-2020 RL921K.pdf

Thank you!
In the eyes ears of Stereoplay Geithaim's line has better scores than Genelec's latest line.
Here is the top from Stereoplay:

 

[Pearljam5000]

Damn, now I feel Genelec is no longer the best lol
But other than that the Geithain have disadvantages
I recently read maybe 2-3 posts on Gearslutz about reliability issues.
It's much harder and expensive to ship to a different country to have it repaired, and I'm not sure about this but I doubt they guarantee having parts for 20-30 years after purchase like Genelec.

 

[Deleted member 4708]

Damn, now I feel Genelec is no longer the best lol
But other than that the Geithain have disadvantages
I recently read maybe 2-3 posts on Gearslutz about reliability issues.
It's much harder and expensive to ship to a different country to have it repaired, and I'm not sure about this but I doubt they guarantee having parts for 20-30 years after purchase like Genelec.

Just because a German magazine says Geithain are better it doesn't make it so. And if the Geithain doesn't have a dealership / support network in the USA then I don't care how good they are; I will not go through the hassle to ship to Germany myself a loudspeakers that's 50 kilos.