McIntosh MHT300 AV Receiver

[Dougey_Jones]

Andrew Robinson is obviously not doing the kind of reviews that ASR members are usually looking for, but I came across his review of this McIntosh a couple of days ago and it prompted me to look for this thread.

He claims that the Hypex amps make bullets zinging by and explosions etc sound 'flat' compared with class AB receivers like the Emotiva MR1L or the new Sony ones. Obviously to be taken with a grain of salt, but I would be interested in an ASR analysis to determine whether there's anything in it (other than the obvious, like level-matching, faulty memory etc).

Preposterous

 

[ban25]

Andrew Robinson is obviously not doing the kind of reviews that ASR members are usually looking for, but I came across his review of this McIntosh a couple of days ago and it prompted me to look for this thread.

He claims that the Hypex amps make bullets zinging by and explosions etc sound 'flat' compared with class AB receivers like the Emotiva MR1L or the new Sony ones. Obviously to be taken with a grain of salt, but I would be interested in an ASR analysis to determine whether there's anything in it (other than the obvious, like level-matching, faulty memory etc).

There are three possibilities:

A) Faulty memory / non-level-matched comparison
B) McIntosh has applied a default house-curve which rolls off the high-end to provide that "warm McIntosh sound" (and which Dirac would override but Andrew tested without Dirac)
C) Both A & B

I vote C.

 

[ad_fletch]

Preposterous

As someone who uses a Hypex amp (with Anthem processing) for his own main HT speakers, I'm inclined to agree.

It's weird though, because often these kinds of reviews hype up the expensive products, and the McIntosh is $8k (!) vs $1600 for the Emotiva. Maybe it's just the trend of Class-D bashing....

 

[ban25]

As someone who uses a Hypex amp (with Anthem processing) for his own main HT speakers, I'm inclined to agree.

It's weird though, because often these kinds of reviews hype up the expensive products, and the McIntosh is $8k (!) vs $1600 for the Emotiva. Maybe it's just the trend of Class-D bashing....

For McIntosh, it's entry level and as they said in the review, mostly for custom installers to upsell their customers. Seems like they didn't like it from a value standpoint and I completely agree, especially when its missing table-stakes features that any younger buyer looking for an entry-level product will expect (bluetooth, wifi). McIntosh is not going to win back the soundbar crowd with offerings like this.

 

[ad_fletch]

McIntosh is not going to win back the soundbar crowd with offerings like this.

Luckily they have the $7k Beosound Theatre as an option

 

[ban25]

Luckily they have the $7k Beosound Theatre as an option

I was literally thinking of that thing LOL

 

[techsamurai]

Andrew Robinson is obviously not doing the kind of reviews that ASR members are usually looking for, but I came across his review of this McIntosh a couple of days ago and it prompted me to look for this thread.

He claims that the Hypex amps make bullets zinging by and explosions etc sound 'flat' compared with class AB receivers like the Emotiva MR1L or the new Sony ones. Obviously to be taken with a grain of salt, but I would be interested in an ASR analysis to determine whether there's anything in it (other than the obvious, like level-matching, faulty memory etc).

I ran into a similar issue with an EI vs Toroidal recently - I was playing "The Happiest Days of Our Lives" from The Wall and the cymbal snap (or whatever that is) after the helicopter sounded very different and flat would have been the word I'd also use. My memory told me immediately that something is off so I switched to the toroidal and I was proven right.

Of course, there's a lot more happening in my case but the same can also be said of the MHT300 and MR1L. It's not just the amplification topology that's different.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

As someone who uses a Hypex amp (with Anthem processing) for his own main HT speakers, I'm inclined to agree.

It's weird though, because often these kinds of reviews hype up the expensive products, and the McIntosh is $8k (!) vs $1600 for the Emotiva. Maybe it's just the trend of Class-D bashing....

I'm using Hypex amps with Dirac Live processing, for both Stereo and Home Theater separately and I can really make it sound like whatever I want by adjusting the target curves. The fact that Andrew Robinson purposely tested without Dirac says everything I need to know about his philosophy and testing methodology.

 

[techsamurai]

I'm using Hypex amps with Dirac Live processing, for both Stereo and Home Theater separately and I can really make it sound like whatever I want by adjusting the target curves. The fact that Andrew Robinson purposely tested without Dirac says everything I need to know about his philosophy and testing methodology.

I can't speak for him but maybe he ran into the issue I did with the incessant exclamation marks when trying to run Dirac Live measurements.

Andrew is probably more familiar than the average person with the sound in his room as he has auditioned a slew of high-end audio equipment at his home so it's probably easy for him to tell the sound once he powers it up and plays a few songs and movies. The words that stuck with me in the review are "Loud is not the same as engaging".

Again, I don't believe it's a knock on Class D but it's the biggest departure for the MHT300 compared to other McIntosh products.

As for testing methodology, testing without room correction might be a better test of the AVR's character. Testing it with Room Correction, you'd be hearing the results of the room correction more than the AVR itself and those can vary even if you use the UMIK-1 - measurements can be quite different with Audyssey as I've discovered with the included mic.

Should the MHT300 require Dirac to play the sound back the same way the MR1L does without Dirac? Imho, that only validates his point.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

I can't speak for him but maybe he ran into the issue I did with the incessant exclamation marks when trying to run Dirac Live measurements.

Extracting the maximum value out of Dirac Live requires time, attention and tinkering. This is his profession, he should be all over this by now.

The words that stuck with me in the review are "Loud is not the same as engaging".

I have a real problem with these kind of subjective slights. There's absolutely no way to pull apart or define what you're talking about. Define engaging? What makes Class A or Class A/B engaging? Subjective preference is a really complicated, multifaceted thing. Just having the idea or belief that you MAY prefer Class A/AB can be enough to sway you in that direction in a sighted test. This is why double blind testing exists, but is basically never used in audio testing because nobody wants to live with the implication; or even worse, that they have no idea what they're hearing or talking about.

 

[techsamurai]

I have a real problem with these kind of subjective slights. There's absolutely no way to pull apart or define what you're talking about. Define engaging? What makes Class A or Class A/B engaging?

They are not subjective - I wouldn't make it about Class A and Class A/B. I returned a Denon in one week and it was EI (Class A/B). I'm returning the RZ50 (also EI class A/B) within a month (I set it up a week ago). The RZ50 is surprisingly authoritative for its price and most would be fine with it but it's not engaging in comparison to my 8002. Once you hear the 8002 next to the RZ50, you cannot unhear it and it makes you wonder about the RZ50

This is why double blind testing exists, but is basically never used in audio testing because nobody wants to live with the implication; or even worse, that they have no idea what they're hearing or talking about.

Oh yeah, you'd be shocked. I've tested an OLED with 1,000 nits full window against my 2014 Sony TV and the results were so shocking that I still have the Sony. I was about to run and buy an A90J and the side-by-sides were absolutely shocking.

I also was able to test 1Mbps Netflix (Chrome) vs 16 Mbps Netflix (IE) and could alt-tab 1,000 times - shocking.

I also did SDR (with 950 nits) vs HDR Dolby Vision (900 nits) and alt-tabbed 1,000 times - again shocking.

But the difference between the 2 AVRs is clear as day unlike the 3 above.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

8002? Are you talking about the Marantz SR-8002 from 2008? I associate Marantz amplification with rolled off treble, maybe that's what you perceive as "engaging".

 

[Dougey_Jones]

They are not subjective.

But they are.

But the difference between the 2 AVRs is clear as day unlike the 3 above.

This is literally the definition of a subjective opinion. "Clear as day" to you, but almost definitely not to everyone.

 

[techsamurai]

8002? Are you talking about the Marantz SR-8002 from 2008? I associate Marantz amplification with rolled off treble, maybe that's what you perceive as "engaging".

Yeah, that's the one. Engaging means you listen and you can't stop listening. You'll know it when you hear it and when you hear that, you can never unhear it.

For instance, it's impossible to listen to Mark Knopfler's Sultans of Swing from the Alchemy album without an emotional connection during the solo.

Even Billie Eilish's intro song to No Time To Die left my entire family in shock when played back on the 8002.

I can go on and on about songs and movies.

I have 3 8002s and they are not perfect.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Yeah, that's the one. Engaging means you listen and you can't stop listening. You'll know it when you hear it and when you hear that, you can never unhear it.

For instance, it's impossible to listen to Mark Knopfler's Sultans of Swing from the Alchemy album without an emotional connection during the solo.

Even Billie Eilish's intro song to No Time To Die left my entire family in shock when played back on the 8002.

I can go on and on about songs and movies.

I have 3 8002s and they are not perfect.

To be completely clear, I've never heard an AVR that I thought was good enough to critically listen to music on.

Is the SR-8002 your best piece of audio equipment? Have you heard legit, balanced separates?

 

[techsamurai]

To be completely clear, I've never heard an AVR that I thought was good enough to critically listen to music on.

Is the SR-8002 your best piece of audio equipment? Have you heard legit, balanced separates?

I grew up with a Sansui 8080db which is now a 50 year old piece of equipment. I don't know how it compares to the highest end today but I do know what it sounded like when I grew up. I used to blast Kitaro's Mangekyou on it and it was a transcendental experience. I get goosebumps thinking about it. The 8002 cannot play Mangekyou the way the 8080 did.

I did audition Marantz separates and the Yamaha TX-RZ1 back when I bought the 8002 but didn't feel they were any better - they sounded great with the songs I played and I think the RZ1 was connected to the Focal Electra 1038BE which I thought was as good as my B&W speakers so it was a fair comparison.

If I didn't like the 8002, I certainly would not have bought another 2 and I would have returned it in 1 week like I've done with 2 other AVRs.

 

[techsamurai]

To be completely clear, I've never heard an AVR that I thought was good enough to critically listen to music on.

Is the SR-8002 your best piece of audio equipment? Have you heard legit, balanced separates?

I just realized you own the RZ50 and I think the point we are both making is that the RZ50 is not musical. I just listened to Michael Buble's Feeling Good on it and, yeah, it's not the same song as the one on the 8002. Try Kitaro's Mangekyou on your stereo.