Maybe a very stupid question, but I gotta know

[Audiobernd]

I have been using a Topping E50/L50-Stack for some time now, and I used the E50 (DAC) with a variable outout, so I could control the volume with the remote. I now set the E50 up in DAC-Mode (fixed output), and the Amp (L50) plays notably louder. I know this should not happening, but it definately does. When listening to the HE6SE in the variable mode, I had to go to about -30 to -20 on the volume contol of the DAC. Now, in pure DAC mode, I have to dial the volume knob of the Amp only to 11 o' clock to get to same volume level of which -25 was on the variable mode.

Yes, i know, i hereby show you all that I know nothing about the technoliogy. But can anyone explain to me why the L50 gets considerably louder when the E50 is in pure DAC mode instead of variable mode? I just want to understand these things better.

 

[Apesbrain]

When in "DAC mode" the E50 is set to deliver its fixed maximum output level to the amp. In "Variable" its output is lower depending on where its volume is set. Higher output from the E50 allows the L50 to deliver the same apparent loudness level at a lower volume knob position.

 

[Jimbob54]

Just for clarity, when you used variable mode, you always used it on less than full output?

Variable mode set to full volume should be exactly the same as DAC mode but anything less will of course be quieter.

 

[Audiobernd]

Just for clarity, when you used variable mode, you always used it on less than full output?

Variable mode set to full volume should be exactly the same as DAC mode but anything less will of course be quieter.

Yes. I got to "full output" like -0 once or twice, but this was too loud. But still, I got close to it with -15 or -10 even. In DAC-Mode, not only do I seem to have much more headroom, but it also sounds better. Maybe it is is all psychoaccoustics, but this is what I hear.

 

[Jimbob54]

It "sounds better" because it is louder. No more, no less.

 

[Audiobernd]

It "sounds better" because it is louder. No more, no less.

My impression is also greater clarity, better instrument seperation, more control over the drivers... but yes, might by psychological.

 

[Jimbob54]

The amp plays louder because it is getting more voltage from the dac in fixed /dac mode than anything below 0 in variable mode.

Louder sounds better

I'm not sure what the confusion /mystery is?

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

Yeah, almost certainly mostly if not entirely a voltage/volume thing. It's hard to compare things when two volume pots are involved without volume matching SPL.

That said...

My impression is also greater clarity, better instrument seperation, more control over the drivers... but yes, might by psychological.

I do have a Topping E30 ii that I use in the office, and in volume mode it converts everything to PCM. In DAC mode it passes through the signal without that conversion. At least that's what I remember reading when I got the thing.

There was a very small audible difference to me, even when SPL matching. Whether that was something to do with the conversion, or the volume control circuit, or my brain playing tricks, I can't say. But I can say it was not volume related.

 

[tmtomh]

My impression is also greater clarity, better instrument seperation, more control over the drivers... but yes, might by psychological.

A couple of years ago I found myself doing a little research on the minimum volume difference people can typically detect. While reading about that, I found out that small volume differences are often detectable, but we don't always perceive them as volume differences (or only as volume differences). So it's very common to experience qualitative differences in sound quality when we listen at different volumes, even though the volume is the only difference.

And there's also the nonlinear character of human hearing, which means that we are not uniformly sensitive to volume differences at all audible frequencies. So louder volume will not only sound louder - it will also usually sound like it has stronger/better bass and louder treble relative to the mids.

 

[huts]

I have an E50 it in dac mode or variable mode at 0db are identical. You can A/B test it by switching back and forth via the menu there should be no difference.

Here's a quick look at the output of both modes for a sanity check playing a constant tone (ignore the d50):

 

[Jimbob54]

I do have a Topping E30 ii that I use in the office, and in volume mode it converts everything to PCM. In DAC mode it passes through the signal without that conversion. At least that's what I remember reading when I got the thing.

That's for DSD playback on the e30. E50 is an ESS based dac and would convert everything to PCM anyway.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

That's for DSD playback on the e30. E50 is an ESS based dac and would convert everything to PCM anyway.

Thanks for that clarification.