Matrix Audio X-SABRE Pro MQA: Best Audio DAC in the World?

[Stereolab42]

Alright, I must have been high since I didn't read the manual as carefully as I should have. It explicitly qualifies 0-4.5Vrms as "at 0dBFS PRE Mode". Which of course allows for the possibility of a higher voltage in +18db mode. But you're right John, it's nuts to expect a full 35.7V; I'm not well-versed in this and I came up with the same figure using one of those online calculators, but I figured I had done something wrong. Maybe one of the Matrix guys can chime in and let us know what the actual maximums without clipping are.

 

[Noob]

So I just looked it up on the website, and it does specifically say that the preamp gain over 0 is digital gain and not an analog preamp.
So it's still very useful if you are playing music that was mastered quietly or if you are running an eq that limits some of your headroom, but the max voltage before hitting distortion is the same.

I still think it's best to test it with your system and with your music before making a decision about changing anything. It might be enough.

From further reading on their website, it seems the Element-X is the one equipped with +10dB of analog gain in preamp mode. So that is an option if the Saber is not enough for you.

 

[restorer-john]

I'm not well-versed in this and I came up with the same figure using one of those online calculators, but I figured I had done something wrong.

Just use a scientific calculator, it keeps your brain working.

18dB divided by 20 (as it's a voltage ratio, not power) gives 0.9
Inv Log of that result gives you the factor (7.943...)
Multiply that by your nominal output voltage (4.5V) and you get 35.745V.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Just use a scientific calculator, it keeps your brain working.

18dB divided by 20 (as it's a voltage ratio, not power) gives 0.9
Inv Log of that result gives you the factor (7.943...)
Multiply that by your nominal output voltage (4.5V) and you get 35.745V.

Good stuff, and of course we all have a scientific calculator on our computers and smartphones. If you can't see an "inverse log" key, you just need to remember that it's base 10, so ratio (factor) = 10^n or 10^0.9 in this case.

 

[Stereolab42]

I got an email response back from Matrix, they confirmed 4.5v is indeed the maximum for XLR out, and that the +18db PRE mode is just digital gain. (Which to me implies it will clip above 0db on a full-strength signal, but I did not test this myself and I did not explicitly ask.)

 

[18inch]

has anyone compared this to the Burson Virtuoso V2+ ? Used to have the first gen x-sabre and remember it being very nice and detailed but bit too sterile. The Burson is more lively and natural sounding, although there is something i miss about the first gen x-sabre. Wondering if this new version is a big difference? Hoping it has a perfect blend of the old x-sabre and the burson. thanks

 

[trl]

CV2+ is quite old, although it has all harmonics below -100 dB on the RCA-out, but the noise on 6.3 mm jack is above average and may not be a best bet for sensitive cans. It outputs a bit over 3 V RMS on DAC-Out RCA plugs; it lacks XLR balanced outputs. However, it's powerful 2 x 8 W @ 32 Ohms class-A headamp inside is a plus.

X-SABRE Pro MQA benefits of newer technologies inside, MQA support (although shouldn't care much about this) and a better SINAD. It outputs about 2.25V RMS on RCA out and 4.5 V RMS on XLR out. It lacks headphones amplifier.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

CV2+ is quite old, although it has all harmonics below -100 dB on the RCA-out, but the noise on 6.3 mm jack is above average and may not be a best bet for sensitive cans. It outputs a bit over 3 V RMS on DAC-Out RCA plugs; it lacks XLR balanced outputs. However, it's powerful 2 x 8 W @ 32 Ohms class-A headamp inside is a plus.

X-SABRE Pro MQA benefits of newer technologies inside, MQA support (although shouldn't care much about this) and a better SINAD. It outputs about 2.25V RMS on RCA out and 4.5 V RMS on XLR out. It lacks headphones amplifier.

100dB is not that bad, also a 8watts into a sensitive cans may not suit due to the high power, but the burson suit very well into normal sensivity and planar magnetic headphones
im using my burson with DC ether flow as dac amp and as dac pre into my purifi/r300, no problem with the burson..., i dont have any plan to upgrade the dac, is enough for me
For me burson make good products, my burson have 4 or 5 years of intensive use and no problems!

 

[trl]

the burson suit very well into normal sensivity and planar magnetic headphones

I know, that's what I'm using too. These days I was pairing it with Fostex TH-X00 Ebony and sound is a bliss.

However, regarding the DAC only, Matrix is newer and better in terms of pure performance.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

I know, that's what I'm using too. These days I was pairing it with Fostex TH-X00 Ebony and sound is a bliss.

However, regarding the DAC only, Matrix is newer and better in terms of pure performance.

Yep
Matrix is better in performance as dac

 

[18inch]

thx for the replies, yea it makes sense, ive had the burson for a good 4 years iirc aswell, ever since they came out with the V2+ and been very happy with it, just have an itch for upgrade, and could use some xlr output aswell, i rarely use headphones so im really looking for solid dac itself to connect to some amps.
Apart from measurement and specs though, any of you had a chance to a/b both model in terms of real time performance, actual sound characteristic and music?

 

[Frank Dernie]

just have an itch for upgrade

speakers, room treatment, moving speakers and listening position in room give a bigger potential for an upgrade than anything electronic
I do understand the appeal of something new though....

 

[AdamG]

thx for the replies, yea it makes sense, ive had the burson for a good 4 years iirc aswell, ever since they came out with the V2+ and been very happy with it, just have an itch for upgrade, and could use some xlr output aswell, i rarely use headphones so im really looking for solid dac itself to connect to some amps.
Apart from measurement and specs though, any of you had a chance to a/b both model in terms of real time performance, actual sound characteristic and music?

Welcome Aboard @18inch.

 

[18inch]

Welcome Aboard @18inch.

thx sir, lot of great info on this forum, wish i joined earlier!

 

[deafenears]

X-SABRE 3 - https://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/554.html

"the X-SABRE 3 DAC is now transformed to function fully as a network capable streaming host."

 

[gvl]

X-SABRE 3 - https://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/554.html

"the X-SABRE 3 DAC is now transformed to function fully as a network capable streaming host."

$2,999.00, so technically it can compete in the "under 3 thousand dollars" category.

 

[kfscoll]

Hmmm...I would've bought the X-SABRE 3 instead of my Element X if it'd been available. There's nothing wrong with my Element X; I just don't need the headphone outputs.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Hmmm...I would've bought the X-SABRE 3 instead of my Element X if it'd been available. There's nothing wrong with my Element X; I just don't need the headphone outputs.

That's why I'm getting the X-SABRE 3. No need headphone amp so X-SABRE 3 it is. Just waiting for the end of the month to place my order It will be replacing a mini-i Pro 3 which is now moving to my bedroom setup.

 

[kfscoll]

That's why I'm getting the X-SABRE 3. No need headphone amp so X-SABRE 3 it is. Just waiting for the end of the month to place my order It will be replacing a mini-i Pro 3 which is now moving to my bedroom setup.

The only thing that I’m not a fan of on the new X-SABRE is that the screen is a little too small to be useful for viewing album art from across the room (I.e. when used in a hi-fi system vs. desktop/headphone system). IMHO the screen should be larger or it should stick to displaying source, sampling rate, and format. My streaming controller (e.g. my phone or tablet) shows me the album art better than that tiny display can. Now, if they put an mini-I Pro 3 display on it (or on the Element X’s successor)…then we’re talking.

 

[enricoclaudio]

The only thing that I’m not a fan of on the new X-SABRE is that the screen is a little too small to be useful for viewing album art from across the room (I.e. when used in a hi-fi system vs. desktop/headphone system). IMHO the screen should be larger or it should stick to displaying source, sampling rate, and format. My streaming controller (e.g. my phone or tablet) shows me the album art better than that tiny display can. Now, if they put an mini-I Pro 3 display on it (or on the Element X’s successor)…then we’re talking.

If they put the same quality screen the put in the mini-i Pro 3, then is going to look AMAZING. Cant wait to get mine. I love my mini-i Pro 3 but I'm pretty sure the X-SABRE 3 is worthy of the price asked. I sit 2 ft from the mini-i Pro 3 so the X-SABRE 3 screen should work for me too.