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Matrix Audio X-SABRE Pro MQA: Best Audio DAC in the World?

JBNY

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Isn't their DAC an PFGA DAC? Maybe they are unable to keep the MGA circuit separate from the non MQA circuit. Chord uses FPGA too and they wont do MQA either, so maybe there is something there. Anyway, I have a few DACs, some MQA and some not, I really can't tell the difference on non MQA files, they sound pretty much the same in a good DAC so I don't think they are changing the non MQA circuit too much if at all. But who really knows.
 

Labjr

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Maybe MQA wants to be sure their files sounds as good as the non MQA files, so they make you change your design so non-MQA files Do NOT sound better?

I think MQA is the side that has a motive for deception. They've been claiming MQA sounds as good or better than masters while simultaneously telling the record companies they won't have to give up their high resolution master files. If MQA sounds better then why would anyone care if they have the hi-res file because it would have no value?

I haven't done a sound comparison myself, but my fear is that, at some point, there will be no non-MQA. I think this is the goal of MQA. Makes sense because of greed. Then the only way you'll be able to play music is on one of 1,000 MQA DACs that all sound the same.
 

JBNY

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I don't think that they make non MQA files sound different at all. They are just using different masters than most 44.1 flac files. As to one day we will have is MQA, I could never see that happening, pretty much the only people who know or care about MQA are the audiophile group. It will never be more than a niche product.
 

Labjr

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As to one day we will have is MQA, I could never see that happening, pretty much the only people who know or care about MQA are the audiophile group. It will never be more than a niche product.

It may not happen, but I guarantee the goal is one-format-for-all.
 

Julf

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But you are missing the main point of MQA, its not that it is supposed to always sound better than other hi res formats. MQA is mostly for hi res streaming over the internet, something that is still difficult for flac 192K, DSD and others.

Have you actually looked at the supposed space saving MQA achieves, and compared it to FLAC?
 

JBNY

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Have you actually looked at the supposed space saving MQA achieves, and compared it to FLAC?

I would much rather have a streaming service that streams hires flac 96k, 192k and higher than using a proprietary format like MQA. But no one is doing it other than Qobuz, and they charge a hefty premium for it. Tidal basically gave out MQA for free if you were already on their premium plan, so what's not to like. They pick mostly good sounding masters for their product. I've been using streaming services since 2002 and I'm just happy we are getting better quality streams as time goes on.
 

Julf

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I would much rather have a streaming service that streams hires flac 96k, 192k and higher than using a proprietary format like MQA. But no one is doing it other than Qobuz, and they charge a hefty premium for it. Tidal basically gave out MQA for free if you were already on their premium plan, so what's not to like. They pick mostly good sounding masters for their product. I've been using streaming services since 2002 and I'm just happy we are getting better quality streams as time goes on.

Fair enough, as long as we recognize that that is a purely business decision where MQA and Tidal are pretty much buying market share. Tidal won't continue to give you MQA for free for ever - or if they do, competitors like Qobuz who don't have to pay MQA licensing fees will eventually undercut their prices.
 

JBNY

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Of course, but if I can get 2-3 years out of Tidal with MQA that is fine with me. People here seem to forget how fast tech is moving in the audio industry and keep getting hung up on how one service or format will take over everything, That is not going to happen, the best we can hope for is something that works great and lasts for 3-5 years before a new better something comes along. If you keep waiting you are only going to miss out on everything that is happening now because you are waiting on what might be happening later. Geez I remember when it was a big deal we could stream 192kbps mp3 that were like 3mb, now we are talking about 200mb flac files streaming in CD and better than CD quality.
 

Julf

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Of course, but if I can get 2-3 years out of Tidal with MQA that is fine with me. People here seem to forget how fast tech is moving in the audio industry and keep getting hung up on how one service or format will take over everything, That is not going to happen, the best we can hope for is something that works great and lasts for 3-5 years before a new better something comes along. If you keep waiting you are only going to miss out on everything that is happening now because you are waiting on what might be happening later. Geez I remember when it was a big deal we could stream 192kbps mp3 that were like 3mb, now we are talking about 200mb flac files streaming in CD and better than CD quality.

Sure. Which is why Tidal solves a non-problem. I prefer to give a pass on Tidal, just as I did with betamax and minidisc, and go directly to the next step.
 

JBNY

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Sure. Which is why Tidal solves a non-problem. I prefer to give a pass on Tidal, just as I did with betamax and minidisc, and go directly to the next step.

You're in Amsterdam, I am in the US. We didn't have anything that was CD quality Flac until Tidal. At least not a service that was integrated into other services like roon. If I waited for qobuz, I would have missed out on great quality flac streaming for the last 2 years.
 

Labjr

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Hi-res is a tiny part of the retail music business. If MQA sells, they will can traditional hi-res. They already claim it's better than hi-res and also claim it's better than CD quality even without decoding. There are MQA CD's available. Do you think their end goal is to co-exist with hi-res? if they can sell everyone one format, the business decision is a no-brainer. Uncompressed hi-res will go. I'm not going to contribute to the demise of hi-res. It's sort of like the way we've shopped our way out of jobs with Chinese made goods.

EDIT: A better analogy might be the way the way Amazon has devastated the retail sector of our economy. All the money goes to one guy. There's no choice left.
 
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Julf

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You're in Amsterdam, I am in the US. We didn't have anything that was CD quality Flac until Tidal. At least not a service that was integrated into other services like roon. If I waited for qobuz, I would have missed out on great quality flac streaming for the last 2 years.

Sure. I realize that you live in a service -poor area in this regard (I also realize high-speed mobile bandwidth is much less prevalent and much more expensive over there), but given the choice between a lossy, proprietary "hi-res" service now, or a proper, lossless service based on open, standard formats in 2 years time, I'd be happy to use the 320 k Spotify Premium service for those 2 years.
 

BDWoody

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EDIT: A better analogy might be the way the way Amazon has devastated the retail sector of our economy. All the money goes to one guy. There's no choice left.

The one guy, plus millions who own Amazon stock.

Walmart changed things...Amazon changed things... The world gets smaller, stuff gets cheaper, and while some who can't compete have suffered, I'm not sure how the retail sector has been devastated...?

Not disagreeing with the point about MQA, but comparing a real market demand and benefit to most consumers as offered by Amazon to a power grab based on questionable technology may not be quite right.

I don't think MQA will end up being an issue for very long because it is completely contrived... Same with the emphasis on crazy sample rates, although that one may be more up in the air.
 

JBNY

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I bought this DAC after this review. I have been using it for almost week now.

I have been struggling to get the USB interface working properly, when playing via roon, with a variety of products. It seems to work if connected to a Windows 10 PC or Laptop, but I do not use this DAC that way as it is hooked into my main audio system not a desktop system.

Products I have tried that exhibit problems via the USB interface are:

1) SOtM sms-200 neo https://sotm-usa.com/products/sms-200-neo-network-player
2) Sonore miroRendu https://www.sonore.us/microRendu.html
3) roon Rock https://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_Optimized_Core_Kit
4) ropieee https://www.ropieee.org/

Problems with the USB interface are:
1. USB Interface lockup playing MQA files. MA DAC when playing MQA files via roon with DSP or Volume leveling engaged, going from 96K to 192K will lock up and play silence until the USB interface is reset.

2. USB Interface playing 176.4K and 352.8K files causes heavy distortion on music.

3. USB Interface playing DSD after 44.1K files caused static to play for 6 seconds before DSD files plays normally.

Just wanted to let people know if they are planning on buying this DAC and using it outside of the Windows 10 environment with Matrix custom USB drivers, these are some of the issues I have found. All issues have been reported to Matrix Audio, but I am not sure if they are fixing them or they think that all the other products need to provide their own fix.

All the other interfaces IIS, Coax, and AES seems to work perfectly.
 

w1000i

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I bought this DAC after this review. I have been using it for almost week now.

I have been struggling to get the USB interface working properly, when playing via roon, with a variety of products. It seems to work if connected to a Windows 10 PC or Laptop, but I do not use this DAC that way as it is hooked into my main audio system not a desktop system.

Products I have tried that exhibit problems via the USB interface are:

1) SOtM sms-200 neo https://sotm-usa.com/products/sms-200-neo-network-player
2) Sonore miroRendu https://www.sonore.us/microRendu.html
3) roon Rock https://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_Optimized_Core_Kit
4) ropieee https://www.ropieee.org/

Problems with the USB interface are:
1. USB Interface lockup playing MQA files. MA DAC when playing MQA files via roon with DSP or Volume leveling engaged, going from 96K to 192K will lock up and play silence until the USB interface is reset.

2. USB Interface playing 176.4K and 352.8K files causes heavy distortion on music.

3. USB Interface playing DSD after 44.1K files caused static to play for 6 seconds before DSD files plays normally.

Just wanted to let people know if they are planning on buying this DAC and using it outside of the Windows 10 environment with Matrix custom USB drivers, these are some of the issues I have found. All issues have been reported to Matrix Audio, but I am not sure if they are fixing them or they think that all the other products need to provide their own fix.

All the other interfaces IIS, Coax, and AES seems to work perfectly.

Maybe this device need an update driver for XMOS XU216 chip
check these files
https://www.xmos.com/software/usb-audio
 
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JBNY

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4 Different devices. All of them need one. Just pointing out if you are going to use it with any of these devices these are the problems that I have found. I was initially hoping it could be fixed on the MA side but it seems that that is not the case.
 

Bamyasi

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Just wanted to let people know if they are planning on buying this DAC and using it outside of the Windows 10 environment with Matrix custom USB drivers, these are some of the issues I have found. All issues have been reported to Matrix Audio, but I am not sure if they are fixing them or they think that all the other products need to provide their own fix.

I have not noticed any of these issues with my Allo USBridge running latest DietPi OS and connected to MA DAC via USB. That said, I am not using Roon, so maybe it is the culprit.
 

w1000i

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4 Different devices. All of them need one. Just pointing out if you are going to use it with any of these devices these are the problems that I have found. I was initially hoping it could be fixed on the MA side but it seems that that is not the case.
How do you setup Roon for MA?
 

Gnasherrr

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hi amir would you test the aes output 1k jitter and thd/ sinad?
 

Bliman

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If you have for example a subscription for Tidal. Is there a way to play their content with this DAC? Or play content of a harddrive is that possible? Basically, I am looking for an option that does the same things as the Okto research Stereo dac.
 
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