Matching REW with Wiim Amp PEQ

[meesbaker]

Alright I havve tried to the best of my ability to figure this out using the forum search but there is something I can not figure out.

So I have a wiim Amp and 2 ML B1 bookshelf speakers + Edifier T4 subwoofer.

I purchased a minidsp umik-1, placed it on the tripod at 90 degrees up towards the ceiling and ran the measurement sweep. I selected L+R and I have configured the subwoofer in wiim app to 7ms delay to match and 80hz crossover. Im basically telling REW that Im using full range speakers to just get more accurate PEQ values generated than what the wiim app would do.

So it generated 8 PEQ values. The problem is that the wiim app only lets me go down to -12db per point. But the REW tries to do up to -15db. I cant figure out how to fix that.

It uses only 8 points right now, wiim lets me input 10 so it coild prolly just do lower db if it used all 10.

EDIT: I put in the filters as close as possible to what REW said and remeasured and it looks like this now.

 

[thcdru2k]

I think you need to take multiple measurements and average them. Basically a couple measurements within a few inches of your current mic position and average them in REW. I usually do around 6 measurements; in All SPL you should see a button that says average the responses. I have a feeling what you are seeing could be mic position and once you average them out you may find you do not need to make such a large cut.

 

[kemmler3D]

REW tries to do up to -15db. I cant figure out how to fix that.

In the EQ generation settings in REW you can set a "max boost" at 12dB and that should do it, I've done the same thing once.

Your result doesn't look terrible though.

 

[staticV3]

Not sure which image is which.

I'd just configure the filters by hand. It's not very difficult and that way you have full control.

Also:
-use MMM for in-room measurements
-measure L+R playing together
-correct only up to ~500Hz
-only remove constructive modes, leave nulls alone

 

[janbth]

Always use Var smoothing in REW if you want to compute filters. In the bass, 1/6-smoothing gives too low resolution, and will produce too low Q values for the filters.

You can use the camera icon on the top left to generate images of the plots.

 

[meesbaker]

Thank you for all the replies!!

I will try again when I come home and report results!

Also I have a question about MMM. If I only care about optimizing one listening position does it still matter? I would assume it makes the filters less powerful to have like a “compromise” where a whole area gets help but I really do not care about what is going on at the other end of the couch.

 

[CDMC]

Thank you for all the replies!!

I will try again when I come home and report results!

Also I have a question about MMM. If I only care about optimizing one listening position does it still matter? I would assume it makes the filters less powerful to have like a “compromise” where a whole area gets help but I really do not care about what is going on at the other end of the couch.

You still want to do multiple measurements. Moving the mike (your ears) just a few inches will result in significant changes in levels in the bass range. You want an average of those ranges at least a foot or so around your ears’s listening position. Also, keep in mind, the biggest benefit comes from cutting the peaks down in the bass range. Focus on those first.

 

[YouDontHaveEnoughBass]

as others have said averaging more measurements is always a good thing

i'd also say your target line looks much too flat; try this house curve (make sure to un-tick "add room curve" if you do and see if it sounds better

nice thing about this stuff is you can keep playing around and seeing whats preferable

after much experimentation i've settled for a minimal eq that just has a single filter taking-6db off a room mode at 46hz, everything else left as-is but your results may vary

 

[staticV3]

I only care about optimizing one listening position does it still matter?

Yes. MMM does not mean you have to measure the entire room. Only your MLP.

If that ends up being just 1ft³ or 30cm³, then that's just fine.

 

[Ruediger]

So it generated 8 PEQ values. The problem is that the wiim app only lets me go down to -12db per point. But the REW tries to do up to -15db. I cant figure out how to fix that.

You need to set the equalizer to custom and adjust it's abilities to +-12. You will then get filters matching it's range.

This can be done in global settings and on the EQ screen.

 

[thcdru2k]

Multiple measurements are also useful for evaluating seat-to-seat consistency. I usually take several measurements around the MLP, plus one seat to the left and one seat to the right. So it is still MLP-focused, but also considerate of other listeners.

I use an overlap crossover, meaning both speakers and subs contribute through the crossover region. My speakers are crossed at 60 Hz, while my two subwoofers are crossed at 80 Hz. I also invert one of the subs as part of the alignment.

This is 5 measurements around MLP and 2 measurements from other listening positions. The images show MLP, other measurements or the average of all measurements. The graphs are raw, no smoothing. The measurements are both speakers and both subs playing together in an asymmetrical open-space living room with no room treatment.

The main takeaway for me is that the dip around 52 Hz is consistent across the measurements and seats, which suggests it is a stable room/system feature rather than a single-position artifact. For that reason, I do not try to boost that area with EQ.

The null around 146 Hz is the other issue, but it is more severe at the MLP and appears more position-dependent, so I treat it as likely SBIR/placement-related rather than something EQ can properly fix. Therefore I leave that alone.

 

[Ruediger]

That's a good looking result overall.

I had problems with a room mode in a larger space emerging at 38hz, coming back at 76hz and so on.. very wide room, big speakers. Which made me explore how I can make the WiiM Ultra handle that. Initial suggestions were in the range of the default 24db. In REW it's important to tune the equalizer, but also look at the settings for Q - I think "RBJ Q" is default and that is what the WiiM uses.

Not sure if it's wise to do that, but WiiM RoomFit also supports filter stapling. So one can do filter 1 -12db at a frequency and filter 2 the same again - haven't measured that, if it just adds up or has an exponential effect. Nor tried to find proper Q values for that. It cancelled the frequency out more or less completely.

 

[meesbaker]

I still didnt manage to limit autoeq to not utilise stronger cuts than -12db. That you can “set that in eq” I also found with AI but none of the buttons actually do anything in that regard. The max boost is already set at 9 by default and only affects how much + it gives, the - is never getting limited.

A bit more exact what submenu what Exact setting name would be appreciated. (maybe a screenshot)

I did get around it by using the harman curve txt but I cant say it sounds better to me. It sounds in my subjective perception more “thin” in the midrange. Like a mesa boogie amp, scooped. Very strong bass and treble. Dialogue clarity suffers and the overall “thickness”(lol that must sound dumb) of many tracks I like such as the Islander from Nightwish suffers also and sounds better and wider on what I had before.

Maybe what I have is good already but it does bug me to copy paste a peq that the software wanted to cut -13.5 and I can only do 12 and settle with it.

I will still experiment with mmm, too but simply recalculating my current file didnt give improvement to me.

 

[YouDontHaveEnoughBass]

yeah you can set max boost but not max cut, though i usually manually change them if rew goes overboard trying to flatten a big peak

one trick you can try is cutting down the amount of filters, if you open the filters window and click the boxes it disables them and i typically go all the way down to two or three filters, see what it can do limited to that amount, and steadily work up from there

if it picks up a strong peak and wants to cut more than 6db from it i typically manually change it to 6 - it gets into realms of psycho acoustics i dont fully understand but when you cut more than 6db trying to fix a big pass peak you tend to perceive it as too little bass even if the graph shows flat after the cut

also in your original post youve got filters running up to 1000hz, i definitely wouldn't eq past 300hz or so and in general try to take a 'less is more' approach of dealing with two or three nasty bits and leaving the rest as-is, when you over correct you perceive the sound as worse

 

[john61ct]

Use your ears more than the graphs

Light touch, don't try to hit a "target" slope, lots of anomalies are better off left as is

is what the masters say

 

[YouDontHaveEnoughBass]

Eyeballing your measurements, theres only 2 or 3 issues you need to fix imo

1 - a broad peak centered around 50hz, a single filter at 50hz, -6db and around 3Q should fix this
2 - a narrower peak around 150hz or so, again i'd take 6db off this but with a narrower Q maybe 6?
3 - a lesser peak around 350hz; honestly i'd be tempted to not fix this one, but you can experiment with a filter and toggle it on and off while listening to music, see if its a problem worth fixing

From this you can gather that you only really need 2 or 3 filters (depending if you feel the 350hz issue is a real issue needing fixing)

Limiting REW to 2 or 3 filters and having max gain at 0 should provide those - it WILL over correct to -10db or something silly, ignore this and limit cuts to -6

 

[thcdru2k]

I still didnt manage to limit autoeq to not utilise stronger cuts than -12db. That you can “set that in eq” I also found with AI but none of the buttons actually do anything in that regard. The max boost is already set at 9 by default and only affects how much + it gives, the - is never getting limited.

A bit more exact what submenu what Exact setting name would be appreciated. (maybe a screenshot)

I did get around it by using the harman curve txt but I cant say it sounds better to me. It sounds in my subjective perception more “thin” in the midrange. Like a mesa boogie amp, scooped. Very strong bass and treble. Dialogue clarity suffers and the overall “thickness”(lol that must sound dumb) of many tracks I like such as the Islander from Nightwish suffers also and sounds better and wider on what I had before.

Maybe what I have is good already but it does bug me to copy paste a peq that the software wanted to cut -13.5 and I can only do 12 and settle with it.

I will still experiment with mmm, too but simply recalculating my current file didnt give improvement to me.

I agree with John, If a flatter target sounds thinner or worse, trust that as useful feedback. A light-touch correction that reduces the worst bass modes often sounds better than graph-perfect correction, especially without multiple measurements proving that the 50 Hz peak is stable.

 

[Ruediger]

I still didnt manage to limit autoeq to not utilise stronger cuts than -12db. That you can “set that in eq” I also found with AI but none of the buttons actually do anything in that regard. The max boost is already set at 9 by default and only affects how much + it gives, the - is never getting limited.

A bit more exact what submenu what Exact setting name would be appreciated. (maybe a screenshot)

I did get around it by using the harman curve txt but I cant say it sounds better to me. It sounds in my subjective perception more “thin” in the midrange. Like a mesa boogie amp, scooped. Very strong bass and treble. Dialogue clarity suffers and the overall “thickness”(lol that must sound dumb) of many tracks I like such as the Islander from Nightwish suffers also and sounds better and wider on what I had before.

Maybe what I have is good already but it does bug me to copy paste a peq that the software wanted to cut -13.5 and I can only do 12 and settle with it.

I will still experiment with mmm, too but simply recalculating my current file didnt give improvement to me.

Here are two screenshots from preferences and from the EQ window (set to configurable and click sprocket there).

These are the settings for WiiM Ultra RoomFit.

Personally I set my filters to overall and individually gain 0, only treat peaks. And only below 200 or 500Hz. With a target flatness of 1 or 3. This amounts to some filter recommendations to look at and work with in the Ultra.

But this is highly subjective.

 

[rjp]

Here are two screenshots from preferences and from the EQ window (set to configurable and click sprocket there).

These are the settings for WiiM Ultra RoomFit.

Personally I set my filters to overall and individually gain 0, only treat peaks. And only below 200 or 500Hz. With a target flatness of 1 or 3. This amounts to some filter recommendations to look at and work with in the Ultra.

But this is highly subjective.

Thank you so much! I would never have thought to select the "Configurable PEQ" model option that reveals these settings. This is perfect for integrating with the WiiM.

 

[EDMoser]

Have you tried turning the subwoofer gain down so REW doesn't have to cut that peak at 50 Hz so much?