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rar133

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So I use http:// www. digizoid. com/ power .php to calculate the mW needed to power headphones.

My HiFiMan HE400i impedance is 35ohms and my bayerdynamics custom studios are 80ohms.

Most manufacturer specs state for 16/32/300 ohms like for example:
- My fiio k3 specs on unbalanced output 220mW(16Ω); 120mW(32Ω).
- On the Fiio Q5S I plan to buy, specs on unbalanced are 280 mW (16Ω), 210 mW (32Ω); 30 mW(300Ω)

How do you get to the middle ground for 35ohm or 80ohms based on the manufacturer specs? I'm not worried the Q5S or the K3 can push the custom studios, but wanted to know if for example I buy a 150ohm or 600 ohm can in the future.

Thanks
 

RayDunzl

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My fiio k3 specs on unbalanced output 220mW(16Ω); 120mW(32Ω).

Calculate the voltage output of the amp:

220mW(16Ω) = 1.87V
120mW(32Ω) = 1.96V

Voltage should rise slightly, if at all, with more ohms in the load, as it did above.



Get the headphone sensitivity (you don't have that number above):

Let's say the sensitivity is 100dB/mw and 150 ohm

Compare the calculated voltage output with the "voltage needed" below.

1587273493583.png


So, the fiio k3 should drive the 150 ohm/100dB per milliwatt phones to "very loud" levels.

---

Calculators:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm

http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html
 
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rar133

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Calculate the voltage output of the amp:

220mW(16Ω) = 1.87V
120mW(32Ω) = 1.96V

Voltage should rise slightly, if at all, with more ohms in the load, as it did above.



Get the headphone sensitivity (you don't have that number above):

Let's say the sensitivity is 100dB/mw and 150 ohm

Compare the calculated voltage output with the "voltage needed" below.

View attachment 59391

So, the fiio k3 should drive the 150 ohm/100dB per milliwatt phones to "very loud" levels.

---

Calculators:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm

http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html


thanks mate...

in my case, the bayerdynamics custom studio have a sensitivity of 96 on 80 ohms

1587278585749.png


how would i know if the amp can output 2.5v or even the mW.

i guess the easy way out is buy a powerful amp that could power just about anything, but then i wouldn't want overkill.

the thing is, the he400i is a gift from the lady and i really only enjoy it through eq. the custom studio is my closed can solution to prevent the amount of sound leak as the open he400i. i would only realistically buy one more headphone, which would probably be the drop senns 58x and stop buying any more headphones..

the specs would be 150ohms at 104db/v resulting at (for 115db) 3.55vrms and 85mW.... how would i get those specs from an amp?

sorry for the confusion.
 

solderdude

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So I use http:// www. digizoid. com/ power .php to calculate the mW needed to power headphones.

My HiFiMan HE400i impedance is 35ohms and my bayerdynamics custom studios are 80ohms.

Most manufacturer specs state for 16/32/300 ohms like for example:
- My fiio k3 specs on unbalanced output 220mW(16Ω); 120mW(32Ω).
- On the Fiio Q5S I plan to buy, specs on unbalanced are 280 mW (16Ω), 210 mW (32Ω); 30 mW(300Ω)

How do you get to the middle ground for 35ohm or 80ohms based on the manufacturer specs? I'm not worried the Q5S or the K3 can push the custom studios, but wanted to know if for example I buy a 150ohm or 600 ohm can in the future.

Thanks

The issue here is that almost all headphone amps have a current limit AND a voltage limit.

A way to figure out how much output power will be available is by first looking at available power at the lowest impedance.
If that is not very high you can be pretty sure the output current is limited.
When powers are specified at 16 Ohm or 32 Ohm you can make some calculations for output current limits.
When also output power is given at 300 Ohm or 600 Ohm you can easily calculate the maximum output voltage.

We can assume that manufacturers supply actual maximum output numbers but some of them simply supply incorrect numbers.

To calculate current limit: convert mW to W by dividing the mW rating by 1000.
Then divide output power (in W) by the given lowest impedance (Ohm) and then take the SQRT (square-root) of the outcome: I=√(P/R).
This will give you the max. output current the amp can deliver in Amp. When the output power is not extremely high you can assume this current is the actual limit.

Now we need the max. output voltage. As most amplifiers/sources can easily provide enough current to for headphones above 120 Ohm one can safely assume that output powers given at 300 or 600 Ohm are caused by output voltage limiting.

To calculate voltage limit: multiply output power (in W) by the given highest impedance (Ohm) and then take the SQRT (square-root) of the outcome: V=√(PxR) . This will give you the max. output voltage the amp can deliver in Volt.

With these numbers you can calculate the output power in various impedances but is not really as straight forward as it seems.
One needs to make 3 calculations based on the current and voltage and then see what the power will be for a specific impedance.

First you calculate the maximum power which is max. current x max. output voltage. The outcome is max power in mW.
This value is only valid for a specific impedance though. This differs from amp to amp and can only exist at the point where the maximum voltage is available at the point where the impedance is a certain value where it draws the maximum current AND still reaches the maximum output voltage.
This is easy to calculate: Divide the max. output voltage (V) by the current (in A) and you get the impedance in Ohms: R=(V/I).
Let's call this the optimal power impedance for now.
Note you need to convert mA to A for this. 1000mA = 1A, 100mA = 0.1A.

Once you have this optimal power impedance you can determine if you need the maximum Voltage or maximum Current to calculate output power in a certain impedance.
For impedances below the determined optimal power impedance you must use the Current limit formula below.
For impedances above the determined optimal power impedance you must use the Voltage limit formula below.

Current limit formula: Headphone impedance (Ohm) x max output current (mA) x max output current (mA) (I² x R) = power in mW in that impedance.
Voltage limit formula: first (max output Voltage (V) x max output voltage (V) ) and divide that outcome with the impedance (V²/R) = power in W in that impedance. Convert to mW by multiplying W x 1000.

Now the example above:
Q5:
max. current = 132mA (0.132A)
max. voltage = 3V
optimal power impedance = 22 Ohm
max. output power in 22 Ohm = 3V x 0.132A = 0.396W (396mW) in 22 Ohm.
Below and above 22 Ohm the output power will thus always be less than the max. output power.

This means for both 35 Ohm and 80 Ohm you need the voltage limit formula as the impedance is above 22 Ohm
35 Ohm = 0.257W (257mW)
80 Ohm = 0.113W (113mW)

For the K3 you don't know the max. voltage but given the fact that they do not give this and it is a portable device the optimal impedance most likely is between 16 and 32 Ohm.
So you can calculate the max. output voltage based on the 32 Ohm power V=√(PxR) = 1.96V
35 Ohm = 0.109W (109mW)
80 Ohm = 0.048W (48mW)
 
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rar133

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The issue here is that almost all headphone amps have a current limit AND a voltage limit.

A way to figure out how much output power will be available is by first looking at available power at the lowest impedance.
If that is not very high you can be pretty sure the output current is limited.
When powers are specified at 16 Ohm or 32 Ohm you can make some calculations for output current limits.
When also output power is given at 300 Ohm or 600 Ohm you can easily calculate the maximum output voltage.

We can assume that manufacturers supply actual maximum output numbers but some of them simply supply incorrect numbers.

To calculate current limit: convert mW to W by dividing the mW rating by 1000.
Then divide output power (in W) by the given lowest impedance (Ohm) and then take the SQRT (square-root) of the outcome: I=√(P/R).
This will give you the max. output current the amp can deliver in Amp. When the output power is not extremely high you can assume this current is the actual limit.

Now we need the max. output voltage. As most amplifiers/sources can easily provide enough current to for headphones above 120 Ohm one can safely assume that output powers given at 300 or 600 Ohm are caused by output voltage limiting.

To calculate voltage limit: multiply output power (in W) by the given highest impedance (Ohm) and then take the SQRT (square-root) of the outcome: V=√(PxR) . This will give you the max. output voltage the amp can deliver in Volt.

With these numbers you can calculate the output power in various impedances but is not really as straight forward as it seems.
One needs to make 3 calculations based on the current and voltage and then see what the power will be for a specific impedance.

First you calculate the maximum power which is max. current x max. output voltage. The outcome is max power in mW.
This value is only valid for a specific impedance though. This differs from amp to amp and can only exist at the point where the maximum voltage is available at the point where the impedance is a certain value where it draws the maximum current AND still reaches the maximum output voltage.
This is easy to calculate: Divide the max. output voltage (V) by the current (in A) and you get the impedance in Ohms: R=(V/I).
Let's call this the optimal power impedance for now.
Note you need to convert mA to A for this. 1000mA = 1A, 100mA = 0.1A.

Once you have this optimal power impedance you can determine if you need the maximum Voltage or maximum Current to calculate output power in a certain impedance.
For impedances below the determined optimal power impedance you must use the Current limit formula below.
For impedances above the determined optimal power impedance you must use the Voltage limit formula below.

Current limit formula: Headphone impedance (Ohm) x max output current (mA) x max output current (mA) (I² x R) = power in mW in that impedance.
Voltage limit formula: first (max output Voltage (V) x max output voltage (V) ) and divide that outcome with the impedance (V²/R) = power in W in that impedance. Convert to mW by multiplying W x 1000.

Now the example above:
Q5:
max. current = 132mA (0.132A)
max. voltage = 3V
optimal power impedance = 22 Ohm
max. output power in 22 Ohm = 3V x 0.132A = 0.396W (396mW) in 22 Ohm.
Below and above 22 Ohm the output power will thus always be less than the max. output power.

This means for both 35 Ohm and 80 Ohm you need the voltage limit formula as the impedance is above 22 Ohm
35 Ohm = 0.257W (257mW)
80 Ohm = 0.113W (113mW)

For the K3 you don't know the max. voltage but given the fact that they do not give this and it is a portable device the optimal impedance most likely is between 16 and 32 Ohm.
So you can calculate the max. output voltage based on the 32 Ohm power V=√(PxR) = 1.96V
35 Ohm = 0.109W (109mW)
80 Ohm = 0.048W (48mW)


wow! thank for that! that is great to know (also thanks for the cheat sheet for the q5s and k3).

much much appreciated :)
 

RayDunzl

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All of the above are based on Ohm's Law.

If you know a couple of values, you can calculate the others.

1587280020289.png


He worked most of it out for us in the 1820's or so, though the watt came along later.

1587280175199.png
 

Nango

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The issue here is that almost all headphone amps have a current limit AND a voltage limit.

A way to figure out how much output power will be available is by first looking at available power at the lowest impedance.
If that is not very high you can be pretty sure the output current is limited.
When powers are specified at 16 Ohm or 32 Ohm you can make some calculations for output current limits.
When also output power is given at 300 Ohm or 600 Ohm you can easily calculate the maximum output voltage.

We can assume that manufacturers supply actual maximum output numbers but some of them simply supply incorrect numbers.

To calculate current limit: convert mW to W by dividing the mW rating by 1000.
Then divide output power (in W) by the given lowest impedance (Ohm) and then take the SQRT (square-root) of the outcome: I=√(P/R).
This will give you the max. output current the amp can deliver in Amp. When the output power is not extremely high you can assume this current is the actual limit.

Now we need the max. output voltage. As most amplifiers/sources can easily provide enough current to for headphones above 120 Ohm one can safely assume that output powers given at 300 or 600 Ohm are caused by output voltage limiting.

To calculate voltage limit: multiply output power (in W) by the given highest impedance (Ohm) and then take the SQRT (square-root) of the outcome: V=√(PxR) . This will give you the max. output voltage the amp can deliver in Volt.

With these numbers you can calculate the output power in various impedances but is not really as straight forward as it seems.
One needs to make 3 calculations based on the current and voltage and then see what the power will be for a specific impedance.

First you calculate the maximum power which is max. current x max. output voltage. The outcome is max power in mW.
This value is only valid for a specific impedance though. This differs from amp to amp and can only exist at the point where the maximum voltage is available at the point where the impedance is a certain value where it draws the maximum current AND still reaches the maximum output voltage.
This is easy to calculate: Divide the max. output voltage (V) by the current (in A) and you get the impedance in Ohms: R=(V/I).
Let's call this the optimal power impedance for now.
Note you need to convert mA to A for this. 1000mA = 1A, 100mA = 0.1A.

Once you have this optimal power impedance you can determine if you need the maximum Voltage or maximum Current to calculate output power in a certain impedance.
For impedances below the determined optimal power impedance you must use the Current limit formula below.
For impedances above the determined optimal power impedance you must use the Voltage limit formula below.

Current limit formula: Headphone impedance (Ohm) x max output current (mA) x max output current (mA) (I² x R) = power in mW in that impedance.
Voltage limit formula: first (max output Voltage (V) x max output voltage (V) ) and divide that outcome with the impedance (V²/R) = power in W in that impedance. Convert to mW by multiplying W x 1000.

Now the example above:
Q5:
max. current = 132mA (0.132A)
max. voltage = 3V
optimal power impedance = 22 Ohm
max. output power in 22 Ohm = 3V x 0.132A = 0.396W (396mW) in 22 Ohm.
Below and above 22 Ohm the output power will thus always be less than the max. output power.

This means for both 35 Ohm and 80 Ohm you need the voltage limit formula as the impedance is above 22 Ohm
35 Ohm = 0.257W (257mW)
80 Ohm = 0.113W (113mW)

For the K3 you don't know the max. voltage but given the fact that they do not give this and it is a portable device the optimal impedance most likely is between 16 and 32 Ohm.
So you can calculate the max. output voltage based on the 32 Ohm power V=√(PxR) = 1.96V
35 Ohm = 0.109W (109mW)
80 Ohm = 0.048W (48mW)
@amirm, we sometimes do need a button equivalent to 1000 likes, not just 1x like.
 
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rar133

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All of the above are based on Ohm's Law.

If you know a couple of values, you can calculate the others.

View attachment 59403

He worked most of it out for us in the 1820's or so, though the watt came along later.

View attachment 59404


euhh... well i guess that dude is Mr. Ohm ... yeah maths weren't really my forte. anyway i'll use the confinement as a means to understand those theories better. thanks a lot mate :)
 
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