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Master Thread: Are Measurements Everything or Nothing?

See Cable Snake Oil Antidote

ieLogical is my website
I see, your just regurgitating BS. All the usual: take real physical properties and stretch them till they show a difference though no one can hear a difference. Those articles talk about measurements but show none, why? Anything that one of the biggest snake oil salesmen, BS audio, is pushing can be ignored.
"In one tested cable, (the worst one we could fine, probably some wierd hifi cable) the speed of a 20,000 Hz signal is about 110-million m/sec. The speed of a 20 Hz signal is about 5-million m/sec," So the difference in arival time from 20hz, which is rare in music, (40hz would be better but then the difference is much smaller, the stretch part) to 20khz is about 1.5 usec. and probably 1/10 of that in the important 200hz to 8khz range. that 1.5usec is 1.5mm in travel distance for the worst possible case. Your driver mountings probably have lower tolerances.

"A cable is very reactive to voltage changes at low frequencies. This is because any capacitance absorbs low-frequency AC voltage changes, and starts to look like its carrying a DC signal." A capacitor is high impedance at low freqs. especially the tiny amount in a cable. So how does it "absorb" anything at low freqs.?

The BS continues with impedance matching and skin depth. all of which has been measured and debunked.
 
Not the set, the scoring stage & mix room. Abbey Road, NHK, Sound One, Todd AO, Sony, Paramount, CBS Los Angeles, Hit Factory, Skywalker Ranch...
Almost all music studios. And there are thousands of other studios that did film sound that didnt use Neve/AMS. After 2000 almost everybody used Protools and mixed in the box.
 
What do you consider to be sufficient for a sealed ≈85dB bookshelf w a 50 to 100 watt amp?
Well it has little to do with sensitivity or amp power, but needs to be considered alongside the speaker impedance characteristic.

Cheap ass 14 gauge copper off Amazon at about $1/m makes no audible change to the signal at typical lengths.

Although with many speakers or at shorter lengths you probably get away with 16, or even in some cases 18. Personally I use 12 gauge because it costs almost the same - is still cheap as chips, and I can.
 
Cable size matters, a short story.

While working in a Factory, a Stamping Department, we needed a lifting device, cable with hooks to lift a panel.
We hired a certified company that designs lifting devices.
4 cables were needed at 1/16" to lift the panel safely (5 times over rated).
I said that cable looks way too small and employees will think it is not strong enough and request to see the documents to prove the strength of the lifting device.
I suggested to make the cable 1/4" (we paid the difference), even though it would make no difference.
There was not one complaint, production went on without any delays.

In some cases size matters...

Ohms
 
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well, that was my point. people here were dissing the guy who said he had engineers hearing a difference as if it was totally impossible. it is (probably) not impossible for (some) people who use EQs regularly
You needed to read the rest of my post. To save you the effort, I'll re-state:

That "almost audible" level of FR variation only occurs in these tests with the 18AWG - which falls outside the scope of "correctly specified". When using speaker wire with sufficient cross sectional area the variation doesn't reach the audible threshold for any human.
 
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Was the article published April 1?

System quality?
Listening environment?
Source material?

Some can:
  • tune a piano by ear and others require a machine
  • localize wines
  • delineate spices in a sauce
  • open a safe by feel

That you even think these are comparable to hearing cable differences says you don't know what you are talking about.

Speaker cables *can* sound different, but the contexts in which they do are well known utterly unmysterious. And uncommon unless you are incompetent in setting up a system
 
Heyser said quite a bit about Group Delay being important.

Deane Jensen maintained that minimum Group Delay trumped Frequency Response as a design goal.

Cable construction, in concert with amplifier output impedance and speaker crossover, affects both Group Delay and Frequency Response

Hence, a particular cable maybe preferred in a particular system by a particular CBLF.

Which is why I have always maintained is there is no hard and fast recommended anything! It's the SYSTEM!
A voice is still recognizable after a thousand miles (5,000,000 ft) of shite copper twisted pair in a POTS (plain old telephone system over 100 yrs old) but 10 ft of wire in your hifi is audible? How?
 
A voice is still recognizable after a thousand miles (5,000,000 ft) of shite copper twisted pair in a POTS (plain old telephone system over 100 yrs old) but 10 ft of wire in your hifi is audible? How?
Recognizable but nothing like the original.

I've never said that everyone can distinguish a difference just that some can reliably determine that some cables in some systems make a difference.
Some systems are so bad wrt FR, phase response and time alignment that it's impossible.
 
ust that some can reliably determine that some cables in some systems make a difference.
And yet after 50 years of claims, not one person has ever demonstrated this.

Huh.
 
Hoo-boy. For those of you not paying attention to the Golden Ear Gurus on YouTube, here’s your fix.

First of all, I do visit his channel once in a while because I do enjoy looking at some of the crazy gear he gets in. However…

This is Jay (Jay’s Audio Lab) holding forth on the worthlessness of measurements.

I think my favourite part is when Jay starts declaring that it’s bullshit that anyone can identify problems in a frequency response just by listening. To paraphrase: “ if you have the ability to detect what frequency isn’t sounding correct just with your bare ears… you have superhuman hearing… you would not be normal…No one can detect what frequency is missing by just listening to something!”

The pain lasts about 10 minutes of ranting, so maybe remove hard or pointy objects around you while listening.

Of course, his YouTube comments, while getting some pushback, are filled with hosannas for Jay telling the truth.

This kind of stuff really makes the pure golden ear look like a dinosaur, especially given that more and more reviewers seem to be adding measurements to the reviews. And I think that Jay in particular tends to collect what’s left of the purely subjective crowd.


 
Thats an oxymoron.
Methinks not. If I take a photo with a poor camera of the Mona Lisa, it is recognizable but nothing like the original.

And yet after 50 years of claims, not one person has ever demonstrated this.

Huh.
Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

I've already told you that many skilled listeners were able to determine A or B at the AES, but on aggregate it was a wash.
 
Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

Methinks you like to believe stories.

Do you have any skepticism about any claims made about anything audio related? Is it all worthy of trying with your own ears if anyone makes a claim, no matter how unlikely?

How about green markers for CDs? Shakti stones maybe?
 
Methinks you like to believe stories.

Do you have any skepticism about any claims made about anything audio related? Is it all worthy of trying with your own ears if anyone makes a claim, no matter how unlikely?

How about green markers for CDs? Shakti stones maybe?
At least, the green marker is cheap!
 
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