A ‘better’ one?
I didn’t by the way trade my Pass for another.
Keith
I didn’t by the way trade my Pass for another.
Keith
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Master Thread: Are Measurements Everything or Nothing?
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Modern designs exhibit extremely low crossover distortion, and class D does not even have such a thing, so any decent amp will preserve low-level information. This is easily observed from distortion spectra which clearly show reducing distortion as signal level decreases. The decrease in SINAD/THD+N at low levels is due to a relatively flat noise floor, so as distortion spurs dwindle, noise begins to dominate the plots. The low-signal distortion boogeyman has been banished for decades.
OK, let’s try something better. Anyone who has ever bought a car based upon numbers only, please, dazzle me because apparently amplifiers are the only things on earth that can be judged by numbers. I’m sure if the numbers are good, the car will be a joy to drive and you will never want to get out. but which numbers do we agree upon? please again anyone who has ever bought a car by numbers I would love to know your experience.
I, and likely many more here than you might expect. I do not judge audible superiority by weight.
Yes, I went from the 30.8 stereo to the 60.8 monos
The whole thing about Class D sounding worse than linear region amplifiers (I'm lumping A and AB together here as they behave largely the same way minus biasing changes) is predicated on two things:
1, much lower switching frequency, waaaaay closer to the audible band than modern designs. That whole thing about IM components probably was a valid concern 30 years ago. That's why subs with class D took off long before anything else, they're so band limited that the IM components may as well not exist.
2, pre-filter feedback causing significant load dependency in frequency response from the interaction of the driver and/or crossover network and the output filter. Post filter feedback designs largely solved this.
1, much lower switching frequency, waaaaay closer to the audible band than modern designs. That whole thing about IM components probably was a valid concern 30 years ago. That's why subs with class D took off long before anything else, they're so band limited that the IM components may as well not exist.
2, pre-filter feedback causing significant load dependency in frequency response from the interaction of the driver and/or crossover network and the output filter. Post filter feedback designs largely solved this.
Well, then, I am quite sure they were terrible amplifiers.
Even better, get a microphone, learn how to make some measurements, get back to us, don't change the subject.
You have set up a straw man to bolster your argument and seem to believe price and weight makes your system superior. Specifications and measurements matter to many people and are rarely if ever the only reason for purchase. The measurements often narrow the field of products, then other factors such as features, aesthetics, warranty and so forth come into play. Just like for cars. If I need to tow a trailer, I am going to look at towing capacity. Ground clearance and approach/departure angles were important in choosing my off-road vehicle (Jeep). Acceleration, cornering, and creature comforts like seats and radio controls weighed heavily in my daily driver. Too broad a brush.
All those incredibly tired of car analogies applied to audio, raise your hands.
Bragging. Makes me glad the forum has ignore. PM me if you ever get measurements to demonstrate something interesting. Otherwise bye!
No, I thought they were quite good, but hard to move and out of my price range. Price is also not the best indicator of performance.
My argument is quite valid because class A is heavy. So if you are going to make judgments, then you would have to have listened to class A to have a judgment rather than a number. Also cost, well class A amplifiers are not cheap to manufacture. especially those with the higher end, which in effect do not exist as cheap.You have set up a straw man to bolster your argument and seem to believe price and weight makes your system superior. Specifications and measurements matter to many people and are rarely if ever the only reason for purchase. The measurements often narrow the field of products, then other factors such as features, aesthetics, warranty and so forth come into play. Just like for cars. If I need to tow a trailer, I am going to look at towing capacity. Ground clearance and approach/departure angles were important in choosing my off-road vehicle (Jeep). Acceleration, cornering, and creature comforts like seats and radio controls weighed heavily in my daily driver. Too broad a brush.
All those incredibly tired of car analogies applied to audio, raise your hands.
Finally someone with some honesty. I’m sorry they were out of your price range. I just dreamed of this type of amplifier for a long time and decided to make the plunge myself.
oleg87
Addicted to Fun and Learning
A car is not an amplifier. If we are talking about sound quality (sound referring to the physical phenomenon, not the whole perceptual process of hearing), the *only* thing that matters is the voltage it applies across the speaker terminals - easily measured.
Anyway, I think we're being trolled here. Don't feed them, folks.
Absolutely not. If we are talking numbers numbers numbers then everything in your life must revolve around numbers otherwise it is not as good or better than something else. You must apply the numbers to any and all items that you purchase especially those that are in most cases quite expensive. That includes vehicles.
I'm just going to move this conversation to a thread that is better suited to where this is clearly going.
I hope you can work towards a good faith try at validating some of those unsupported claims you are making, rather than just making more of them.
A few simple controls (match levels, don't peek) can go a long way.
Then I do not understand your argument. Apparently it is not based upon sound but other factors like weight and cost? Yes, class A is heavy, as you need a lot of weight for transformers (assuming not a switching power supply) and heat sinks to handle the high constant bias current and resulting heat dissipation. That all also leads to higher cost. I was discounting weight as a factor in sonic performance, as being irrelevant since it is a by-product of the design rather than a primary factor in the sound. I admire a great sounding amplifier whether it weighs a few pounds or a few hundred; once the amp is placed, weight doesn't matter to me as far as sound is concerned.
I have listened to many class A designs over the years, from early tubes through Levinson and others. I base my preference upon listening and performance, as stated above, though often use specs to narrow down the range. The 25 W class A designs do not have sufficient power to drive my speakers to the volume I desire, so I listened mainly to ~100 W class A designs. I did not hear significant differences among good A, AB, and D designs in that power range.
I would guess your next argument will be to state my ears are and/or system is not resolving enough to hear the fine details of class A compared to other classes, the usual "you are not as good as me" argument presented in these food fights.
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