Master Thread: Are measurements Everything or Nothing?

[dshreter]

Yes. A group of spin-o-rama measurements is basically done every 10 degrees to 1/20th octave resolution on a horizontal and vertical circle. A total of 70 measurements. A Klippel is the easiest. An anechoic chamber is another fairly easy method. Amir had a picture of Harman's anechoic chamber with a 90 degree arc of microphones every 10 degrees. They would measure and rotate the speaker as needed. One could do the same outside with care, a lazy susan, and one microphone. So with enough effort and desire such measurements are not out of reach of any sizable speaker company or even serious dedicated amateurs. Obviously to design, measure, change parameters and measure again the easier/quicker the measuring the more likely one is to get what one is aiming to get. It need not aim for a Harman target even if you use the spin-o-rama measurement method. Whatever result you are looking to achieve using spin data is a better method to evaluate your results than has generally been the case in the history of speaker design.

Bingo. It provides for a standard for the measurement of speakers and the presentation of those measurements. There are other ways you could present the same information, but by following a standard it is easier to interpret and compare.

There’s no way to make a great speaker without knowing and optimizing what sound is coming out of it in all directions. And if you have these measurements, you might as well follow the convention for ease of interpretation…. unless you want to obscure the measurements because they are lack luster.

It’s like why you don’t describe the power of an amp in horsepower, you use watts because it is the convention.

 

[Sal1950]

It is a senior moment! Spinorama is a nick name for the graphs produced when measuring a speaker according to the standard I linked.

Help for spinorama website

www.spinorama.org

Well heck, someone stole Harman's descriptive handle.

 

[dshreter]

Well heck, someone stole Harman's descriptive handle.

I mean the method was developed by Toole himself and he’s referenced in the published standard, so it wasn’t exactly stolen

 

[Blumlein 88]

Bingo. It provides for a standard for the measurement of speakers and the presentation of those measurements. There are other ways you could present the same information, but by following a standard it is easier to interpret and compare.

There’s no way to make a great speaker without knowing and optimizing what sound is coming out of it in all directions. And if you have these measurements, you might as well follow the convention for ease of interpretation…. unless you want to obscure the measurements because they are lack luster.

It’s like why you don’t describe the power of an amp in horsepower, you use watts because it is the convention.

Well the most powerful amps I've had were 1.34 horsepower into 8 ohms. More if I gear down with 4 ohms.
This would be 3400 BTU/hr into 8 ohms.
Or 10 billion ergs/second into 8 ohms.

 

[Sal1950]

I mean the method was developed by Toole himself and he’s referenced in the published standard, so it wasn’t exactly stolen

OK, I don't know. The first I remember hearing it used was in Harman's speaker preference testing and the
setup they used to move speakers in and out of position quickly for comparing speakers. This had nothing to do
with axis measurements or alike. That was a long time ago ???
Chicken or the Egg. LOL

 

[dshreter]

OK, I don't know. The first I remember hearing it used was in Harman's speaker preference testing and the
setup they used to move speakers in and out of position quickly for comparing speakers. This had nothing to do
with axis measurements or alike. That was a long time ago ???
Chicken or the Egg. LOL

I think they called that a shuffler, not a spinorama. I did a couple searches and couldn’t seem to see it referred to as a spinorama at least.

 

[Axo1989]

It is a senior moment! Spinorama is a nick name for the graphs produced when measuring a speaker according to the standard I linked.

I would dispute "moment" but that's excessively pedantic. You could almost say that "it does depend on your level of understanding what the numbers mean" and apply that to the words as well.

I think they called that a shuffler, not a spinorama. I did a couple searches and couldn’t seem to see it referred to as a spinorama at least.

See, not just a moment. More of a continuum.

 

[Sal1950]

Well the most powerful amps I've had were 1.34 horsepower into 8 ohms. More if I gear down with 4 ohms.
This would be 3400 BTU/hr into 8 ohms.
Or 10 billion ergs/second into 8 ohms.

I wonder how that equates to our Westinghouse J34 powered 1967 Cougar in horse power?
I looked into the formula for it's 3000 lbf of thrust but the math is too much for me.

Those were the days !!!!

 

[Blumlein 88]

I wonder how that equates to our Westinghouse J34 powered 1967 Cougar in horse power?
I looked into the formula for it's 3000 lbf of thrust but the math is too much for me.
View attachment 404821
Those were the days !!!!

1 lb of thrust at 375 mph (550 fps) is 1 horsepower. So max power is the trap speed/375 mph times the thrust. So if it were 187.5 mph terminal speed it would be 1500 hp.

 

[Sal1950]

1 lb of thrust at 375 mph (550 fps) is 1 horsepower. So max power is the trap speed/375 mph times the thrust. So if it were 187.5 mph terminal speed it would be 1500 hp.

Thanks D !

 

[dshreter]

1500 hp

Better known as 1.1 megawatts for audiophiles

 

[kemmler3D]

Well the most powerful amps I've had were 1.34 horsepower into 8 ohms. More if I gear down with 4 ohms.
This would be 3400 BTU/hr into 8 ohms.
Or 10 billion ergs/second into 8 ohms.

This is really something to think about, you could not even cut the lawn with a serious audiophile amp, but you could bother the neighbors three times as much as you do with a lawnmower.

 

[Mart68]

This is really something to think about, you could not even cut the lawn with a serious audiophile amp, but you could bother the neighbors three times as much as you do with a lawnmower.

I don't know about that, I only lived in suburbia for three months but the constant lawn mowing noise - especially in the early morning at the weekends - was a right pain in the arse.

 

[Wesseling Audio Lab]

Not for me they haven't. A review is nothing more than someone else's opinion. You get to decide how much influence it has. I generally go for what I like and don't worry about others opinions. Just do what you like and enjoy it. It's your system after all so it should make you happy first and foremost.

Rob

How quickly did choosing a system make you happy? Most audio enthusiasts have spent decades on this - referring to speakers mainly.

The science is well understood! I would trust Amir's objectively supported ten word subjectivity over Stereophiles 10 paragraph nonsense.

The best solution is you understand the science and work at designing and building speakers for your yourself!

 

[Wesseling Audio Lab]

Has stereophile been here on this thread to defend itself? It would be nice to read their side of the "STORY"

 

[Purité Audio]

Stereophile are a business their aim is to sell the most product, the vast majority of their readers are technically ignorant, they certainly aren’t interested in graphs and just want to be told an enjoyable story they can believe in.
Imagine if Stereophile wrote every week that one dac sounded exactly the same as every other.
Keith

 

[Mart68]

Imagine if Stereophile wrote every week that one dac sounded exactly the same as every other.

Maybe we could club together, buy Stereophile, and start doing that?

It would be hilarious while it lasted. Which wouldn't be long.

 

[SIY]

It would be hilarious while it lasted. Which wouldn't be long.

Audio Critic was an object lesson.

 

[Mart68]

Audio Critic was an object lesson.

Didn't they have to buy the products themselves because most manufacturers wouldn't submit any for review?

Not daft, these manufacturers.

 

[Purité Audio]

Maybe we could club together, buy Stereophile, and start doing that?

It would be hilarious while it lasted. Which wouldn't be long.

I would enjoy that, ask Matt ( Hooper) to write the subjective part but then heavily redact his copy.
Keith