Master Thread: Are measurements Everything or Nothing?

[Petrushka]

I have a question for you: Let's say you go to a live concert and you find out it's being recorded. You really like the concert, and wait for the recording to come on the market.

When that recording come on the market, what to you want it to sound like? Do you want it to sound like 1) the concert where you were present, or do you possibly want it to sound like 2) something different, sort of like a retouched photograph?

If you want it to sound just like what you heard when you were there, how is that done without well-engineered equipment?

If you want it to sound "retouched", isn't that done deliberately, as in choices made by recording industry personnel? Whether you agree with their choices or not, doesn't that also take well-engineered equipment? If not, how could they rely on their equipment to consistently give a certain desired result?

Whether you like the end result or not is beside the point ... the equipment does what it is designed to do.

What you may not like, therefore, is the set of choices that the recording industry personnel made. If those don't sound good to your ears, blame the people ... not the equipment.

Jim

By live, I assume no electrified or amplified instruments or voices.

One other thing, unrelated to the above: I have a set of Woodstock CDs that claim to be unenhanced, and as close as possible to what went to the speakers at the concert. The official albums were mastered for the movies, and are “improved”.

 

[Petrushka]

No, I didn't mean that at all. I meant a public performance, not a studio performance. Sorry for not being clear enough.

Jim

I am not trying to be difficult, but I see no way to capture a performance involving amplified instruments or voices, and which includes room or auditorium effects.

 

[Petrushka]

Huh?

Jim

p.s. - Deleted a few that were unamplified. Got carried away. My bad.

You might be able to create a facsimile of the performance, but not by recording what comes from the performance speakers.

 

[Petrushka]

What am I going to hear if I'm in the audience?

I don't quite understand what it is that you're trying to say. Please be a bit clearer.

Jim

You are going to hear whatever comes out of the performance speakers, plus audience noises, plus reflections and such from the venue.

 

[Petrushka]

To a great extent, that depends on the mics used and the recording engineer's expertise. But as a person who walked in and heard the original performance, didn't I hear what came out of the performance speakers? Didn't I hear the audience noise? Didn't I hear the reflections? Isn't that the difference between a live recording and a studio recording?

In another thread - or post, or something - I said that I wanted a recording of a live event to be the closest approach possible to what I heard when I was there. That is still my desire.

Jim

Most live recordings would be made from the venue console, and any audience noises would be added in during the mixing process.

 

[Reddy]

I assembled my entire audio equipment based on the favorable measurements I found in this forum. However, even with the budget constraints considered, none of the selected devices can truly be called audiophile in my opinion.
To me, “audiophile” means being able to hear every nuance on the soundstage, distinguishing the players and instruments clearly – even down to the breath of an ant crawling on the floor. The core issue is that most people deem such an experience impossible and mistakenly believe that as long as the sound is clear, the pinnacle of audio quality has been achieved. My conclusion: Measurements may be useful for machines, but humans should trust their senses, particularly their ears.

 

[Purité Audio]

An ant’s breathing yes… of course you can only hear that with really expensive equipment.
Keith

 

[voodooless]

Your imagination just isn’t resolving enough!

 

[StigErik]

I must say that I'm extremely happy for not being an audiophile. I trust nothing but measurements.... which to me is the only way to achieve really good sound.

 

[Drunkinho]

So you trust measurements to the point that you do not need to hear amp X with speakers Y before buing them?

 

[StigErik]

So you trust measurements to the point that you do not need to hear amp X with speakers Y before buing them?

Yes, at least for amps.

My speakers are DIY...

 

[goat76]

I have a question for you: Let's say you go to a live concert and you find out it's being recorded. You really like the concert, and wait for the recording to come on the market.

When that recording come on the market, what to you want it to sound like? Do you want it to sound like 1) the concert where you were present, or do you possibly want it to sound like 2) something different, sort of like a retouched photograph?

If you want it to sound just like what you heard when you were there, how is that done without well-engineered equipment?

If you want it to sound "retouched", isn't that done deliberately, as in choices made by recording industry personnel? Whether you agree with their choices or not, doesn't that also take well-engineered equipment? If not, how could they rely on their equipment to consistently give a certain desired result?

Whether you like the end result or not is beside the point ... the equipment does what it is designed to do.

What you may not like, therefore, is the set of choices that the recording industry personnel made. If those don't sound good to your ears, blame the people ... not the equipment.

Jim

I believe that most people who add a little bit of flavor to their systems do so because it takes their listening experience closer to what they think sounds more life-like and real, and not necessarily because they want a different layer of color applied to everything.

Sorry, but your example and your viewpoint on recordings is a little bit naive. It seems like you think that the recordings are some kind of “1:1 replicas” of the real music event, and that a little bit of coloring will ruin the listening experience. The thing is that the recordings are already severely colored by all the steps taken in the audio production, all the way from the choice of microphones to the last step of mastering.

 

[Galliardist]

Most live recordings would be made from the venue console, and any audience noises would be added in during the mixing process.

Most live recordings these days appear to be made on smartphones.

 

[Blumlein 88]

So you trust measurements to the point that you do not need to hear amp X with speakers Y before buing them?

Yes.

 

[Purité Audio]

I believe that most people who add a little bit of flavor to their systems do so because it takes their listening experience closer to what they think sounds more life-like and real, and not necessarily because they want a different layer of color applied to everything.

They ‘believe’ and of course are told by manufacturers/retailers that the result will be more real and lifelike but it is just distortion if indeed the component adds anything audible.
Keith

 

[Drunkinho]

Distortion at normal listening levels? Caused by what exactly?

 

[MaxwellsEq]

To me, “audiophile” means being able to hear every nuance on the soundstage, distinguishing the players and instruments clearly – even down to the breath of an ant crawling on the floor

You need a compressor or limiter for that. Something that has a consistent gain from -100dBFS to 0dBFS won't allow you to hear this stuff. You need something that increases the level of the quieter stuff.

 

[FrantzM]

So you trust measurements to the point that you do not need to hear amp X with speakers Y before buing them?

Yes.

Me too.
We're not alone.
Please stay, in ASR , learn and you will join share this point of view.
Liberating! and this will save you money and in the process allow you to have a better audio system and enjoy so much more music...


Peace.

 

[FrantzM]

I must say that I'm extremely happy for not being an audiophile. I trust nothing but measurements.... which to me is the only way to achieve really good sound.

You're an audiophile.

I share this sentiment and as a result, am enjoying the best system (as well as the least expensive audio system) I have had in my 50+ years of being an audiophile and music lover

Peace.

 

[Killingbeans]

So you trust measurements to the point that you do not need to hear amp X with speakers Y before buing them?

Yes.

Still would like to see the thing in person though. There's lots of thing you can't see in measurements and pictures.

Such as, whether it looks way better or worse IRL, or whether the manufacturer has cut corners on the mechanical components, software or user interface.

Although, most of this only matters if it isn't going to live in a rack in a utility room.