Geert
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Then where's the evidence and rationale to support the statements?
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Master Thread: Are measurements Everything or Nothing?
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Then where's the evidence and rationale to support the statements?
As a new member (relatively new I mean), the discussions on forums helped me a lot with my beliefs and psychological predisposition to trust marketing strategies…
So I was really reluctant at the beginning and I rebated till a very intense level all arguments that contradicted my “golden” ears.
But I’m in soul a scientist, so after even being banned from a “famous” forum “How can a DAC measured audibly transparent have a sound signature?” I started to search and prove some combinations with my gear and giving a credibility to expert’s arguments and voilà! The trick of self-convictions felt down
So I was very happy with members who had the patience to give me rational arguments about acoustics, so I’m now much less lost on the topic and what I want in sound gear, and even beginning to study a little bit of electronics to better understand amplifiers and digital encoding.
My actual mind state is measurements are enormously useful but challenging to a non-expert, and in the same range of transparency and linearity I use my personal impressions to decide especially about speakers.
Probably what we believed from many years is difficult to change, in most fields. So I hope this forum will continue for many years to aport credibility to an increasing wild marketing and guide music lovers to more durable satisfaction with their hobby.
Placebo effect is intense but in general don’t last long time and dissipate gradually, I guess is one of the reasons why people in audiophile world change again and again their equipment, even compulsively with its economic implications
So I was really reluctant at the beginning and I rebated till a very intense level all arguments that contradicted my “golden” ears.
But I’m in soul a scientist, so after even being banned from a “famous” forum “How can a DAC measured audibly transparent have a sound signature?” I started to search and prove some combinations with my gear and giving a credibility to expert’s arguments and voilà! The trick of self-convictions felt down
So I was very happy with members who had the patience to give me rational arguments about acoustics, so I’m now much less lost on the topic and what I want in sound gear, and even beginning to study a little bit of electronics to better understand amplifiers and digital encoding.
My actual mind state is measurements are enormously useful but challenging to a non-expert, and in the same range of transparency and linearity I use my personal impressions to decide especially about speakers.
Probably what we believed from many years is difficult to change, in most fields. So I hope this forum will continue for many years to aport credibility to an increasing wild marketing and guide music lovers to more durable satisfaction with their hobby.
Placebo effect is intense but in general don’t last long time and dissipate gradually, I guess is one of the reasons why people in audiophile world change again and again their equipment, even compulsively with its economic implications
You have an enormous patience, thanks for your interventions when I was so reluctant as this member to open my mind to rational arguments.
Jim
That happens a lot.
What convinced me when I was at the same hard position was the simple thought you or another member posted me: “listen, if you can perceive a difference in the signature sound of a DAC, as you mentioned that violins sound louder or piano more clear don’t you think that corresponds to frequencies we can trivially measure with instruments?”You definitely have demonstrated your lack of training in science and engineering. Do you know the technology required for thrust vectoring? Coming up with a vectoring variable geometry exhaust nozzle that can withstand the heat and stress from full afterburning and function reliably is such a piece of cake
A single argument impossible to refute, as electronic Fourier analysis of a signal is way more accurate that human perception, either in visual and audition
DonR
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MattHooper
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Having an argument, and using arguments are two completely different things…
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No it isn't.
That's not an argument - it's just contradiction.
MattHooper
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I’ve had enough of this!
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Aren't contradictions down the hall in another office?
What a bunch of python nerds we all are
DonR
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No you haven't.
MattHooper
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Ha ha! Nice one centurion! Like it…like it…
sonitus mirus
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This thread is very similar to the Monty Python "Argument Sketch". Yes, it is.
Can different filters explain (at least partially) why we feel inconsistent sensations when listening to different DACs even if theoretically are measured linear?
Or perhaps interaction with non-linear amps explain these inconsistencies because output levels of the DAC can’t produce exactly the same sound even if the preamp volume is used to compensate them?
I mean, in my particular case my studio monitors have an input gain: one of my two DACs is playing louder than the other so to compensate that I low down the volume of the DAC output or I reduce the gain on the monitor input circuit.
Is this causing some effect? Despite being convinced that both DACs are well made, one of them always cause me fatigue with highs very enhanced. I cannot feel it immediately but soon or later I will have to put the other.
The one that please me more (or at least don’t produce me fatiguing) is the cheapest one (by far) so is difficult that I have psychological predisposition to believe is better; in fact I bought it for recording as it has a ADC and never thought to use it to play music.
So I continue to search an explanation from time to time: despite I’m totally convinced that is trivial to generate a clean line out signal from a digital source, the perceived sensations don’t disappear
Or perhaps interaction with non-linear amps explain these inconsistencies because output levels of the DAC can’t produce exactly the same sound even if the preamp volume is used to compensate them?
I mean, in my particular case my studio monitors have an input gain: one of my two DACs is playing louder than the other so to compensate that I low down the volume of the DAC output or I reduce the gain on the monitor input circuit.
Is this causing some effect? Despite being convinced that both DACs are well made, one of them always cause me fatigue with highs very enhanced. I cannot feel it immediately but soon or later I will have to put the other.
The one that please me more (or at least don’t produce me fatiguing) is the cheapest one (by far) so is difficult that I have psychological predisposition to believe is better; in fact I bought it for recording as it has a ADC and never thought to use it to play music.
So I continue to search an explanation from time to time: despite I’m totally convinced that is trivial to generate a clean line out signal from a digital source, the perceived sensations don’t disappear
Yes some filters can be audible, any HF roll off that starts in the audible band.Can different filters explain (at least partially) why we feel inconsistent sensations when listening to different DACs even if theoretically are measured linear?
Or perhaps interaction with non-linear amps explain these inconsistencies because output levels of the DAC can’t produce exactly the same sound even if the preamp volume is used to compensate them?
I mean, in my particular case my studio monitors have an input gain: one of my two DACs is playing louder than the other so to compensate that I low down the volume of the DAC output or I reduce the gain on the monitor input circuit.
Is this causing some effect? Despite being convinced that both DACs are well made, one of them always cause me fatigue with highs very enhanced. I cannot feel it immediately but soon or later I will have to put the other.
The one that please me more (or at least don’t produce me fatiguing) is the cheapest one (by far) so is difficult that I have psychological predisposition to believe is better; in fact I bought it for recording as it has a ADC and never thought to use it to play music.
So I continue to search an explanation from time to time: despite I’m totally convinced that is trivial to generate a clean line out signal from a digital source, the perceived sensations don’t disappear
TEAC make a DAC that starts rolling off at 12KHz. I'd probably hear that compared to a DAC that is flat to 20KHz. I can't hear any difference in the 6 less radical filters on a Topping E30 but then I'm 55 years old. Not impossible someone much younger could perceive them.
I would just use the DAC you prefer and not worry too much about why that is. It could be in your head or it could be an actual difference in the soundwaves, but it isn't worth losing any sleep over. There's much bigger fish to fry in the quest for good sound - loudspeakers and rooms.
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