Master Thread: Are measurements Everything or Nothing?

[BDWoody]

Man, I like everyone posting in this the last few days. I even give a little bit of validity to Matt's positions. J_J is a treasure not just for his professional knowledge and experience, but because he has a gift for cutting through irrelevancies with precision and efficiency. I think no one is doing anyone any good right now. If I were to drop into the end of this thread from nowhere to see what this forum is about it would be a big turn off.

May I suggest everyone give themselves a voluntary time out for 48 hours. Just ignore this thread and don't look at it for a couple days. I would actually suggest a week, but doubt that will happen. Hopefully posters don't stew about it for 2 days and then come back with a vengeance renewed.

Just a suggestion. I'm no moderator and have no authority.

Excellent idea.

72 hour break. Take a few days off everyone!

These are the least favorite issues for your humble moderators to deal with...a handful of our senior members going at each other.

Deep breath everyone. Use ignore as needed to keep your sanity.

 

[JayGilb]

A bench full of equipment and a lack of understanding on how to create a consistent test bench.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Thread on this already.

 

[Killingbeans]

much ado about very little.

Loudspeaker cable test

Hello Forum. In a Dutch test, speaker cables were tested but also measured objectively. see the video: my question is can anyone on this forum perform a similar test. I would like to see whether measurements will differ if one uses an amplifier-unfriendly speaker and compares it with an...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[fpitas]

The test has to be called a success, because it got them lots of clicks.

 

[AdamG247]

Media link removed by Moderator.

much ado about very little.

Next time do a search before starting a new thread. This topic and video has been addressed in several previous threads. Moved your new thread here.

 

[Lujiez]

Here’s a link to the video

Soooo, long time lurker, first time poster here.
But after enough rubbish posted by the guys at the Alpha Audio channel on YouTube I thought I would share the latest.
“Proof” that network switches make an audible difference!

There are even a couple of comments suggesting the usual BS about Amir like he will have “more sleepless nights” after this video and that he is has a cult who drink the kool-aid.
Irony at its best!
Would be great to have people with more knowledge than me to ask specific questions in regards to this setup, the results, what’s been misconstrued, misunderstood and why this is misguided.

P.s if you really want to get angry, feel free to watch their video on the “blind testing” of network switches.

Who needs coffee when you can watch an Alpha Audio video

 

[Lujiez]

Within the last 3 hours? Far out I must be slow lol thought I’d be first

 

[Jonnyc55]

https://medium.com/@reza_keshavarzi/how-your-dirty-car-can-actually-be-more-fuel-efficient-d0591d58f5

A clean car does do good.

 

[fpitas]

https://medium.com/@reza_keshavarzi/how-your-dirty-car-can-actually-be-more-fuel-efficient-d0591d58f5

A clean car does do good.

Uh...thanks? Welcome to ASR. I think you meant to post that in the car cleaning section

 

[fpitas]

https://medium.com/@reza_keshavarzi/how-your-dirty-car-can-actually-be-more-fuel-efficient-d0591d58f5

A clean car does do good.

Oh and BTW...the article title says a dirty car is more fuel efficient. As far as I'm concerned, that's good news.

 

[Jonnyc55]

Oh and BTW...the article title says a dirty car is more fuel efficient. As far as I'm concerned, that's good news.

Another article said it did, this one, which is what I went off and thought that link would parrot the findings: https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a39227774/dirty-vs-clean-car-fuel-economy/ :

"Let’s say the average person drives 10,000 miles per year. Using the MythBusters results, the driver of the dirty car will use 417 gallons of gas per year, while the driver of the clean car will use 379. "

This says car manufacturers are conscious of the car being clean for wind tunnel testing https://thecitywash.co.uk/2022/09/12/clean-cars-go-faster-its-true/#:~:text=However, if you regularly get,resistance – hence making it faster. :

However, if you regularly get your car washed, and especially if you get your car waxed, the surface of your car will be smoother, the air will flow around it more easily, and your car will be more aerodynamic, enabling it to push through the air with less resistance – hence making it faster. This is why car manufacturers use spotlessly clean cars when they do their wind tunnel testing. They want to present the best performance figures they can for marketing purposes, and this can only be achieved by making the car as aerodynamic as possible.

Regarding the first link I posted:

Contrary to our intuition, a properly designed roughness can actually reduce drag. As a golf ball flies through the air, it pushes the air in front of it around itself. This creates a very high-pressure region at the front and a low-pressure region at the back (called the wake).

That's fine for me because the joke spoke of clean cars being better but there is some truth to dirty cars having some advantage, which is surprising and interesting physics.

For what is a funny joke, it does have some credit to it with some physics attributed to it and I wonder if such small tweaks like the OP can add up to become obvious to our ears, which would be nice, since you expect small tweaks to be cheap.

 

[fpitas]

That's sort of interesting, but perhaps this all belongs in another thread.

 

[DonR]

For what is a funny joke, it does have some credit to it with some physics attributed to it and I wonder if such small tweaks like the OP can add up to become obvious to our ears, which would be nice, since you expect small tweaks to be cheap.

No. Any such "tweaks" are on the scale of mosquito farts in a hurricane.

 

[magicwolf]

No one is intending disrespect.

You write that my statements are anecdotal, and at the same time you think it should not offend me in any way?!

This industry capitalizes on ignorance

Unfortunately, you are absolutely right, that's why I like and take measurements, but unfortunately, measurements do not always show what is actually heard. The perception of the sounds of music is really formed not only in the ear, but in the brain. This is an inseparable part of the perception of sound. And it is not measured. Therefore, in addition to measurements, I read how people evaluate audio equipment without measurements. And I always evaluate myself both by measurements and by sound perception, of course, as much as possible.

I hope you do more reading before you continue dismissing people who are trying to help.

I apologize if I offended anyone.

 

[Jonnyc55]

No. Any such "tweaks" are on the scale of mosquito farts in a hurricane.

I keep faith they may still be doing something even if small, for it adds up. The filter furthered the job of the amp's filtration. You're either willing to enact lots of tweaks or you're not. Look at F1 engineers, they streamline bolts I bet, will the driver feel the difference? Maybe if he chose to, will the lap timer pick it up? No, because it's so small, there's too many variables at that level, it gets hid in potential noise. Will the F1 engineer do it anyway? Yes... because it adds up.

 

[popej]

The perception of the sounds of music is really formed not only in the ear, but in the brain. This is an inseparable part of the perception of sound. And it is not measured.

Occam's razor: if you can't measure it, then it is not due to electric modifications.
While perception is an interesting subject, it tells us nothing about audio gear.

 

[antcollinet]

The perception of the sounds of music is really formed not only in the ear, but in the brain.

Bingo

And the problem is that the brain forms those perceptions from all sorts of things - not just the audio pressure waves reaching your ear. Your perceptions of the audio will be changed by what you see, what you know, and what your subconscious brain has learned to expect.

So while your uncontrolled perceptions may be fine to tell YOU what YOU hear, they are pretty useless to inform anyone else what they may hear, or to inform anyone which bit of kit YOU are listening to has the best sound.

 

[DonR]

I keep faith they may still be doing something even if small, for it adds up. The filter only furthered the job of the amp's filtration. You're either willing to enact lots of tweaks or you're not. Look at F1 engineers, they streamline bolts I bet, will the driver feel the difference? Maybe if he chose to, will the lap timer pick it up? No, because it's so small, there's too many variables at that level, it gets hid in potential noise. Will the F1 engineer do it anyway, yes... because it adds up.

No. The scale is completely different. It does not add up or you would see these "devices" in metrology labs where the sensitivities are many orders of magnitude greater than in the audio world. You don't. You don't see "tweaks" or special power cables or any such nonsense.

 

[JSmith]

Sure is quiet around these parts...

Hey, we've reaches 420 standard pages;

JSmith