Master Thread: “Objectivism versus Subjectivism” debate and is there a middle ground?

[ahofer]

Mistake #1.

Sort of doubt it got to that point. The “best measuring amps” comment is a giveaway.

 

[Ingenieur]

For level matching we use an SPL meter on a tripod in the room, and never move it during the session, and match levels using a 1 KHz tone from the same CD source.

Again, those that haven't heard sound-staging differences wouldn't understand what I'm saying, nor care. Feel free to not care, and to not consider sound-staging important.

I hear it often.
When I adjust speaker toe-in.
Never heard a difference with amps.

 

[JP]

Sort of doubt it got to that point. The “best measuring amps” comment is a giveaway.

True, but it’s the only data point for test setup thus far. Let’s call it chronologically sorted.

 

[ahofer]

True, but it’s the only data point for test setup thus far. Let’s call it chronologically sorted.

I’m going with dressing up a preference for distortion as “soundstage”. That’s the more charitable of the *likely* possibilities here.

 

[Ingenieur]

Folks preferring or liking something does not automatically imply better fidelity to the signal.
Often, the opposite.

 

[JP]

I’m going with dressing up a preference for distortion as “soundstage”. That’s the more charitable of the *likely* possibilities here.

I’ll take FR just to keep it fun.

 

[Ingenieur]

Without knowing much about 'soundstage' it would seem to be a function of the recording process.
Mic'ing
EQ/mixing
The recording room acoustics

After that not much can be done other than to preserve what is on the media.

 

[Pattern]

I do not do drugs.
Perhaps you should quit. Lol

I personally can't Imagine forgoing the most effective system upgrade available.

 

[ahofer]

I personally can't Imagine forgoing the most effective system upgrade available.

Well, cost effective, anyway.

 

[Chrispy]

Folks preferring or liking something does not automatically imply better fidelity to the signal.
Often, the opposite.

Nor does it mean it is "soundstage"

 

[Ingenieur]

I personally can't Imagine forgoing the most effective system upgrade available.

If caught it would cost me my job and likely my professional license.

Maybe when I retire I'll try it.
But I doubt it.

 

[ahofer]

Nor does it mean it is "soundstage"

What about pace, rhythm, and timing? And slam, don’t forget slam!

 

[Chrispy]

But no actual electrical level matching nor quick switching nor blind? Good luck with that.....I don't have soundstage "issues" in any case in any of my systems....

For level matching we use an SPL meter on a tripod in the room, and never move it during the session, and match levels using a 1 KHz tone from the same CD source.

Again, those that haven't heard sound-staging differences wouldn't understand what I'm saying, nor care. Feel free to not care, and to not consider sound-staging important

 

[JP]

If caught it would cost me my job and likely my professional license.

Maybe when I retire I'll try it.
But I doubt it.

A nice drink works too.

 

[litemotiv]

You have to understand that every form of subjectivity is part of a belief system, and you cannot change people's beliefs simply by giving them facts. Belief systems have self reinforcing feedback loops which can be difficult to break.

"In the US, for example, where 67 percent of the general population compared to 30 percent of scientists identify as religious, only one-third of scientists view the science-religion relationship as one of conflict. "

Source: Religion among Scientists in International Context: A New Study of Scientists in Eight Regions

Believing that an invisible man with a beard floats in the sky who gets angry when you watch porn is arguably a lot more insane than believing that several similarly measuring audio devices can still sound different, yet here we are.

 

[ahofer]

You have to understand that every form of subjectivity is part of a belief system, and you cannot change people's beliefs simply by giving them facts. Belief systems have self reinforcing feedback loops which can be difficult to break.

"In the US, for example, where 67 percent of the general population compared to 30 percent of scientists identify as religious, only one-third of scientists view the science-religion relationship as one of conflict. "

Source: Religion among Scientists in International Context: A New Study of Scientists in Eight Regions

Believing that an invisible man with a beard floats in the sky who gets angry when you watch porn is arguably a lot more insane than believing that several similarly measuring audio devices can still sound different, yet here we are.

They could legitimately sound different if he is comparing, say, Primaluna amps to properly designed solid state. Maybe even a Pass design solid state to something less forced. But these things are measurable, and are not realism or fidelity to source. And even those measurable differences tend to be quite small in an audible sense.

The more likely possibility, given the weight of decades of evidence, is that the blind test claim is a bluff. But one can hope.

 

[JP]

Believing that an invisible man with a beard floats in the sky who gets angry when you watch porn is arguably a lot more insane than believing that several similarly measuring audio devices can still sound different, yet here we are.

But he loves you.

 

[voodooless]

But he loves you.

Tell that to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, or the Egyptian children that were allegedly slain… Or all the others for that matter.

 

[JP]

Tell that to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, or the Egyptian children that were allegedly slain… Or all the others for that matter.

I was channeling George Carlin.

 

[litemotiv]

Here's a piece of the clip for reference: