Master and slave streamer + DSP + dac + amp

[Biblob]

Hi guys and gals,

Last year I finished my first diy-project to build an active 2.2 speaker setup. Right now I have my filters made via Rephase. Before I want to commit to Acourate I wanted to do something else. I want get rid of all the massive wiring and equipment that comes from having those six dac and amp channels.

So I got the idea to make an all-in-one box comparable to the likes of the build-in streamer functions of the Kef LS50 Wireless II, D&D 8c and the likes.
I'd love to only have to plug in a powercable (and maybe ethernet) to a speaker and have no equipment in between the speakers.

The thing is, I would like to have the benefits of a complete D/A and A/D chain and also have all the possibilities using DSP:
- stream Spotify via Wifi and/or Bluetooth
- Optical and Coax input (for TV)
- A/D (aux) in
- DSP capable (convolver (Acourate) filters)
- 4 channel dac (3 channels + sub)
- amps build in

So in my head I have the following:
Build one 'Master' and a 'Slave' enclosure with in both a computer (RB Pi4?) + digi inputboard + 4 channel DAC/ADC + 2 amps (125W each)

I guess this idea looks similar to what is discussed on the 'ASR streamer' thread, but I'd figure this is even more niche than that Does anyone have advice as where to start or came across something similar?

Edit: I guess what I want is a smaller, split-up MiniDSP SHD Studio Power

 

[chnan]

If no DIY:
(1) maybe things like Hypex FA503 or FA253 will do. just dig a hold in the back panel of speakers and they can behave like D&D 8C
(2) Arylic has some solutions may also meet your functional requirements, but their performance here in ASR looks really bad.
(3) if you insist on amps integrated without DIY, perhaps digital amps from car audio will also work. I think sony and pioneer have something looks better than Arylic.

If you plan to assemble things together:
the trick part is how you'd like to arrange your dsp. you can do them in software (like CamillaDSP in R-pi).
I tried 2 set-up myself, but I did not try to put them into a box.
(a) rpi > pifi digi+ > minidsp 2x4HD (as DA & DSP, but no AD) > Allo Volt+D *2( this one for my TV)
(b) rpi > allo digione > RME UFX (as channel split, AD, DA, and simple DSP) > LM3886 and Allo Volt+ (this one as reference)

I also recommend Motu 828ES. they got almost everything except stream and amps parts.

 

[voodooless]

@chnan: which of these options offer convolution?

A pi will do it, but will not remove the requirement of wire mess.

 

[abdo123]

(a) rpi > pifi digi+ > minidsp 2x4HD (as DA & DSP, but no AD) > Allo Volt+D *2( this one for my TV)

you don't need a HAT for that option.

 

[abdo123]

@chnan: which of these options offer convolution?

All of them via Camila DSP, reliability is not guaranteed though.

 

[voodooless]

All of them via Camila DSP, reliability is not guaranteed though.

Like I said, how does that negate cable mess?

 

[abdo123]

Like I said, how does that negate cable mess?

It's not like you will have less cable mess with a dedicated X86 PC, there is no machine out there capable of convolution and has a DAC too. MiniDSP retired these units.

 

[voodooless]

It's not like you will have less cable mess with a dedicated X86 PC, there is no machine out there capable of convolution and has a DAC too. MiniDSP retired these units.

Well.. that’s exactly why we have this topic, don’t we

I for one will never trust a pi to do anything ever again. Those things died on me so many times in so many ways that I’m really done with them.

It would be nice if we Hypex would finally release FIR capable plate amps. They’ve been telling us they would be there for years.. still nothing.

 

[abdo123]

I for one will never trust a pi to do anything ever again. Those things died on me so many times in so many ways that I’m really done with them.

Really? That's a pity because I only bought one and it's been working well for me for over a year, I might retire it because I bought a new TV with all the fancy streaming services on there, or maybe an Apple TV 4K for Dolby Atmos music?

what i meant with reliability is more about software than Hardware, if you're going to use the Pi to do FIR crossovers then i would not trust it completely. a blown out tweeter would be much worse than whatever drawback a minimum phase crossover would have.

 

[chnan]

@chnan: which of these options offer convolution?

A pi will do it, but will not remove the requirement of wire mess.

@voodooless , @abdo123
(1) you are right, I did not avoid the cable mess at all. I think living with cable mess is easier. If Arnadsway is planing to build a box, it's impossible to avoid wiring components. I just regard my rack as a bigger box and that satisfies me.

(2) for advanced convolution, I don't think camilla + r-pi is reliable, so I just accept the simple DSP setting in RME totalmix-fx or minidsp-interface.

(3) I don't think Hypex will release FIR in near future, since the old plate-amps are not making enough $. Instead, I believe Motu is closer to allow user to specify the details of filter function in coming years. at least, they have released a AVB API to control the mixing console.

​

 

[abdo123]

since the old plate-amps are not making enough $.

Really? They recently raised their prices. I thought the demand is high because of that.

 

[voodooless]

Really? They recently raised their prices. I thought the demand is high because of that.

I don’t think rising demand has anything to do with that. It’s probably chip and other part shortages that lead to this.

I would not hold my breath either for a FIR Hypex amp.

 

[chnan]

The recent raised prices is probably not due to to strong demand (of course, I know audiophile DIY markets are growing while people stay home with more time). They are more like the results of increasing costs from chip, passive components, transportation, factory shut-down... etc.

I don't have the number how much hypex is earning. But I don't remember seeing any commercial active speakers adapting hypex plate amps. Even they do, according to the general rule: "manufacturing cost < 25% sale price", the market is likely limited. If I were the plate amp PM, I'll simply reduce the function and doing cost-down. This is what we Taiwanese good at. ha

 

[abdo123]

I don’t think rising demand has anything to do with that. It’s probably chip and other part shortages that lead to this.

I would not hold my breath either for a FIR Hypex amp.

I thought the global chip shortage is about 7nm and 14nm wafers that can run entire computers for cars, TVs, laptops and whatnot. Not necessarily for a 150MHz chip runing few PEQ filters.

 

[voodooless]

I thought the global chip shortage is about 7nm and 14nm wafers that can run entire computers for cars, TVs, laptops and whatnot. Not necessarily for a 150MHz chip runing few PEQ filters.

No, there is a shortage of basically everything. And cars use ancient technology for the most part, certainly no 7nm technology (there will be some exceptions probably)

 

[chnan]

I thought the global chip shortage is about 7nm and 14nm wafers that can run entire computers for cars, TVs, laptops and whatnot. Not necessarily for a 150MHz chip runing few PEQ filters.

There 2 cases:
(1) advanced chip shortage (<16nm) is due to crazy digital currency trends. People are paying 200% to get the GPU, plus PS5 and new generation Xbox also released this year, so no enough fab time. For the advanced tech, only those don't care about money can afford it. check the sample TSMC 12" wafer prices tag here.

(2) matured generation shortage (from 8" to 12" 28nm), there is no clear explanation why chip demands are so strong. The 2nd line chip maker (including UMC and GF) are not players for advanced tech, but they are still raising the price tag like crazy. There are limited fab capacity in this world. How come chip are enough in 2019 but suddenly short in 2021? I guess someone is stocking the chip with plans. Who is not complaining car-chip (MCU) shortage?

 

[mdsimon2]

Well.. that’s exactly why we have this topic, don’t we

I for one will never trust a pi to do anything ever again. Those things died on me so many times in so many ways that I’m really done with them.

It would be nice if we Hypex would finally release FIR capable plate amps. They’ve been telling us they would be there for years.. still nothing.

Curious what was the nature of the Pi failures and on which models / run times?

I’ve used a pair of RPi3s without issue for 1.5 years, one with an ADC HAT and one with a SPDIF output HAT.

I just recently started using RPi4s for DSP (with no HATs) and the increased operating temperature has me a bit worried about reliability.

Michael

 

[voodooless]

Curious what was the nature of the Pi failures and on which models / run times?

I've had a Pi4 model running with HifiBerry DSP on top of it doing some room correction and sub out. HifiBerry OS runs well enough until you pull the plug on it by accident. In 9 out of 10 cases, that means you can do a recovery or reinstall the thing. A broken SD card happened as well (and I used good ones). Then I switched to Moode for a while, but the interface is horrible, especially the volume control on the phone. At least it's more robust to power failures, but also not 100%. Eventually got fed up again, and went back to HifiBerry. Eventually, the thing just broke down mid-operation. Got fed up with it and threw the system out and my Marantz AV receiver back in. It's clunky, a bit buggy and slow, but at least it always works, and Audyssey XT32 is okay for the moment, and I get the added bonus of Atmos decoding. Did not yet have the interest to check out what went wrong this time with the Pi.. for the time being, I'm done with it.

 

[mdsimon2]

Interesting, thanks for the response. My experience has been somewhat similar with the "audiophile" operating systems and really do not like them or find much need for them. I run LMS for local files and otherwise AirPlay from an iphone for Amazon Music HD so squeezelite and shairport-sync completely cover my needs.

I am using Raspberry Pi OS on my RPi3s and Ubuntu Server on my RPi4s, both are very stable. I have not had any issues with pulling the plug causing issues (and I have done this a ton while playing around with them). Definitely a bit worried about reliability but considering how cheap they are I personally would have no issue just swapping one out if it broke. In my current setups with CamillaDSP I can go from blank SD to full up and running system in less than 30 minutes which is not that bad (although I would be annoyed if I had to repeatedly do that for no reason!).

Michael

 

[voodooless]

If I were to ever try all of this again, I would probably not use an SD card. Those things are notorious failures, so either you run your OS with the thing mounted read-only (what moode is mostly trying to do), or use some kind of special copy-on-write filesystem that is actually designed to run on SD cards. I would probably opt for a USB3 SSD though. Those should be much more reliable.