Massdrop Airist R2R DAC Review

[Veri]

SPL TwinTube is pretty fun to play around with!

 

[tktran303]

The question is: are you looking for sound reproduction or sound production?

 

[Mnyb]

On topic whats broken in this product ?
Given that R2R is maybe not the most logical choice . The device still fails under that constraint ?
It doesn’t not only fails as a DAC but also as a R2R DAC ?
There are other R2R DAC’s like the soekris designs that performs much better .

Under this constraint ( it has to be R2R ) what can you realistically expect .

Just like there is no real reason to do tube designs anymore , there can be better and worse implementations of them.

Is the analog part after the DAC also broken , avoiding negative feedback for voodoo reasons for example ?

 

[amirm]

Is the analog part after the DAC also broken , avoiding negative feedback for voodoo reasons for example ?

There is no way to analyze internal components. That said, the kind of error I see in IMD test points to core R2R implementation, not analog distortion, feedback, etc.

 

[soekris]

On topic whats broken in this product ?
Given that R2R is maybe not the most logical choice . The device still fails under that constraint ?
It doesn’t not only fails as a DAC but also as a R2R DAC ?
There are other R2R DAC’s like the soekris designs that performs much better .

Under this constraint ( it has to be R2R ) what can you realistically expect .

Just like there is no real reason to do tube designs anymore , there can be better and worse implementations of them.

Is the analog part after the DAC also broken , avoiding negative feedback for voodoo reasons for example ?

Looks like they use regular opamps.... But to me it looks like they have a problem concentrating the positive and negative parts of the two R2R networks used for the Sign Magnitude DAC, they seems to do it not very smart.... I can easily get distortion below 0.01%, raising very little with increasing frequencies, when using the same 0.05% tolerance resistors as the Airist DAC....

 

[BillG]

A penetrating observation. The thing is, effects processors contain specific circuitry or code to achieve specific effects. This DAC just looks like it's adding random distortion.

If someone were to take the time to analyze the distortion profile, it may not be so random after all, though...

 

[BillG]

I like where you're going with dsp but then why are there still tube amps around if dsp can emulate the tube sounds? Could it be that dsp is still not good enough ?

Nah, DSP is more than good enough, and allows for a level of precise control not possible with analog. And if wants to bring chaos into the mixture, just link a few of the variables to random number generators were appropriate.

Some people actually like the aesthetics of tube gear as opposed to a GUI on a computer screen...

 

[abvolt]

Sure glad I read this was about to order me one, Thanks for all the info & review..

 

[qwerty88]

Nah, DSP is more than good enough, and allows for a level of precise control not possible with analog. And if wants to bring chaos into the mixture, just link a few of the variables to random number generators were appropriate.

Some people actually like the aesthetics of tube gear as opposed to a GUI on a computer screen...

Fiddling around with a few DSPs now, any that you recommend for tube emulation outside to those already mentioned (including from myself)?

 

[Frank Dernie]

Some people actually like the aesthetics of tube gear as opposed to a GUI on a computer screen.

I do.
I have a nice looking valve amplifier. I rarely use it but it looks really nice so sits on top of my record cabinets, though it is a pain to dust.

 

[beefkabob]

Some people actually like the aesthetics of tube gear as opposed to a GUI on a computer screen...

https://www.amazon.com/Handmade-ORANGE-Pentode-Steampunk-Industrial/dp/B00NB0QYGU

 

[Mnyb]

Looks like they use regular opamps.... But to me it looks like they have a problem concentrating the positive and negative parts of the two R2R networks used for the Sign Magnitude DAC, they seems to do it not very smart.... I can easily get distortion below 0.01%, raising very little with increasing frequencies, when using the same 0.05% tolerance resistors as the Airist DAC....

Thanks for the info trying to cut trough the bad SNR of the tread

So iit’s safe to Say this is a R2R DAC to avoid even if you want one , look elsewhere .

 

[BillG]

Fiddling around with a few DSPs now, any that you recommend for tube emulation outside to those already mentioned (including from myself)?

Other then iZotope Ozone MP, which I've already mentioned and is no longer for sale, sorry, no. It's been my goto for a number of years now, and I've not had the need to look any further.

Since it is no longer for sale, I feel comfortable mentioning the fact there is a cracked version of it floating around on the Web. If you don't want to do that, iZotope recently made Ozone Elements available for free. However, it does't include the tube emulation function, just the EQ, Stereo Imaging, and Compression modules instead...

 

[Killingbeans]

So iit’s safe to Say this is a R2R DAC to avoid even if you want one , look elsewhere .

Yes, that's the whole point. There are other R2R DACs that have THD+N and IMD low enough to arguably be inaudible to anyone but trained listeners. They probably won't sound different compared to any Sigma Delta DAC with equally low THD+N and IMD, but if the idea of R2R makes you varm and fuzzy inside, spending money on those will be a bit less nutty than throwing them at a bad R2R implementation like the Airist.

Even if you wholeheartedly believe in the superiority of R2R, the Airist is not worth defending.

 

[pglee]

I was looking forward to this review since all the other ladder DAC's on this site have measured poorly, but I bought it despite this since Massdrop products have been pretty reputable. I've been in search of a low priced ladder DAC ever since I auditioned a MSB DAC several years ago, which was way over my budget. And you know what, I think it sounds great. I also own a Topping D50 and an Oppo UDP 205 that I use as reference. I have to say that I prefer the airist over the D50 (The Oppo still sounds better but not practical as a desk unit) despite it measuring much better. I mostly preferred this DAC because I could hear more details without it sounding harsh. Maybe this was just output levels. I'm normally an obectivist when it comes to audio simply because it's really hard to trust audio reviews that are subjective. I'm going to have to re-compare my Topping to see if I was just convincing myself the Airist was better, or maybe I just enjoy some coloration in my sound, as illogicial as that sounds.

Update:
Well, I guess the power of suggestion is pretty strong. I plugged in the D50 and now all that detail I thought I was hearing sounds like distortion. I guess I was fooling myself. Oh well. This hobby can be frustrating at times.

Update 2:
After switching back and forth a few times, I can't help but preferring the Airist DAC. It is what it is. I know it's techinically inferior, but when I listen to the Topping, I just want to return to the Airist. I honestly don't want to, but it's just what I prefer. I guess, I've finally become an "audiophile" after 30 years in this hobby.

 

[pwjazz]

SPL's TwinTube ($199, 14d free trial)

TwinTube is currently on sale for $29 (apparently this happens from time to time).

 

[samshaver]

TwinTube is currently on sale for $29 (apparently this happens from time to time).

Cool! Thanks!

I see that this is a plug-in. So, silly question, but can this be used with a player like Foobar2000, or does it require recording studio software to use?!?

 

[pwjazz]

Cool! Thanks!

I see that this is a plug-in. So, silly question, but can this be used with a player like Foobar2000, or does it require recording studio software to use?!?

It looks like there's a Foobar plugin that allows use of VSTs. I haven't personally tried this so I can't vouch for how well it works, but you could give it a try.

https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Components/VST_adapter

 

[samshaver]

It looks like there's a Foobar plugin that allows use of VSTs. I haven't personally tried this so I can't vouch for how well it works, but you could give it a try.

https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Foobar2000:Components/VST_adapter

Great! Thanks again!

Worth a shot for $170 off!

 

[majingotan]

I was looking forward to this review since all the other ladder DAC's on this site have measured poorly, but I bought it despite this since Massdrop products have been pretty reputable. I've been in search of a low priced ladder DAC ever since I auditioned a MSB DAC several years ago, which was way over my budget. And you know what, I think it sounds great. I also own a Topping D50 and an Oppo UDP 205 that I use as reference. I have to say that I prefer the airist over the D50 (The Oppo still sounds better but not practical as a desk unit) despite it measuring much better. I mostly preferred this DAC because I could hear more details without it sounding harsh. Maybe this was just output levels. I'm normally an obectivist when it comes to audio simply because it's really hard to trust audio reviews that are subjective. I'm going to have to re-compare my Topping to see if I was just convincing myself the Airist was better, or maybe I just enjoy some coloration in my sound, as illogicial as that sounds.

Update:
Well, I guess the power of suggestion is pretty strong. I plugged in the D50 and now all that detail I thought I was hearing sounds like distortion. I guess I was fooling myself. Oh well. This hobby can be frustrating at times.

Update 2:
After switching back and forth a few times, I can't help but preferring the Airist DAC. It is what it is. I know it's techinically inferior, but when I listen to the Topping, I just want to return to the Airist. I honestly don't want to, but it's just what I prefer. I guess, I've finally become an "audiophile" after 30 years in this hobby.

You should give Schiit a chance at least their Bifrost 2 DAC