MartinLogan Motion 4i Review (bookshelf speaker)

[F1308]

I've had a pair of reQuest for 23 years.

They're my mains.

View attachment 101808

(not my picture, but, same thing)

Very good looking !!!!
Are you happy with them...?

 

[F1308]

Even one keeps saying it at least looks good. I'm sorry but I can't tell what part exactly looks good here? Those front screws being accentuated like that (and so many) and that weird thing on the bottom.

Doesn't really look all that good to me at all really.

Think Eiffel !!!!

 

[Zvu]

Surely Martin Logan’s Folded Motion® Tweeter is not just an off-the-shelf AMT

Nooo, of course not.

While we're at it, here are Zvu's FPT Folded Planar Technology® tweeters.



Disregard the sticker, we have a joker in company. Two of our random samples measure like this - we always check every batch for consistency on and off axis.



Measurements done in test cabinets with HolmImpulse, Steinberg UR12, calibrated Behringer ECM8000 from 1m distance.

And our tweeter has nothing to do with this copy, of course:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32808861900.html

They just happen to have 13 folds of kapton ribbon visible through the slots just like those in 4i speakers.

It also has nothin' in common with Harwood AM20

https://www.hifisound.de/Do-it-your...stics-AM-20-AIR-Motion-Transformer.html#diagr

It also isn't a tweeter in Piega Classic 3.0, 5.0 and 7.0 along with OAudio LoCo 6.1 selling for quite a few euros

 

[RayDunzl]

Very good looking !!!!
Are you happy with them...?

If I wasn't they'd be replaced.

They're not for everybody. You like them or you don't.

Low distortion, good impulse and step, they throw a flat phase response to the listener (without gating or other cheats in the measurement), take EQ well, and have plenty of faults if you are comparing them to what is considered scientifically preferable around here.

They would probably measure with some similarities to the Magnepan LRS, which at some point actually scored a negative value in the ratings here at ASR.

They show up on the used market for $1~$2000 from time to time, if you're interested.

 

[beagleman]

How much SPL is lost when travelling through the narrow part of the tube...

Funnily enough, eyeballing the on-axis FR doesn't look too bad. Ignore the high >16kHz which doesn't exist off-axis anyway, and also it has more treble compared to bass, from 500Hz to 10kHz+ it is still within a 5dB variation.
Estimated in-room is too bright for me, but hard to believe this gets a pref rating of 1.5 while the R1280 gets 1.9
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../edifier-r1280t-powered-speaker-review.16112/

Bass is of great importance both subjectively and objectively I guess.

We are in agreement here.

Looking back now, the "I guess" part sounded sarcastic to me. as if you were rolling your eyes about how the subjective rating is made.....

 

[misterdog]

They would probably measure with some similarities to the Magnepan LRS, which at some point actually scored a negative value in the ratings here at ASR.

MartinLogan produced a small ESL called the Electromotion, of a similar size to the LRS above. I had one briefly, it sounded awful.
I have super tweaked Quad 989's, and could see nothing of value in the Electromotion other than good looks and a small form factor, relatively speaking.
My Quads fill the room with quality sound, the Electromotion did nothing for aural excitation.

Panel speakers need a large surface area to operate correctly.

 

[wwenze]

We are in agreement here.

No we are clearly not.

I mentioned "Bass is of great importance both subjectively and objectively I guess." I mentioned subjective because of personal opinion from experience that bass extension and quantity is more important than whether the treble is chewed up or not. So in this case subjective prediction and predicted number have an agreement. This is despite rough eyeballing seemingly suggesting otherwise *IF* the objective prediction system had been dumber. If anything, this piece of fact (the FR measurement) vs the interpretation (eyeball vs preference rating vs panther) is a good learning that supports what we already know.

 

[whazzup]

@MZKM
Just curious: can the FR data be edited so that the 60-200hz datapoints are raised to 86db, then the score regenerated? I suppose it's not as simple as that, but it'll be cool to see how filling in that region changes the score.

 

[beagleman]

No we are clearly not.

I mentioned "Bass is of great importance both subjectively and objectively I guess." I mentioned subjective because of personal opinion from experience that bass extension and quantity is more important than whether the treble is chewed up or not. So in this case subjective prediction and predicted number have an agreement. This is despite rough eyeballing seemingly suggesting otherwise *IF* the objective prediction system had been dumber. If anything, this piece of fact (the FR measurement) vs the interpretation (eyeball vs preference rating vs panther) is a good learning that supports what we already know.

Okay, you win the obtuse award.
Truly sorry I agreed with anything you say.
So you can then say we do not agree.

I think you are trying to have it both ways. Question how the ratings go, but then say "oh wait I really get it is about the bass", /........so why bother even questioning how the ratings are done, if you are gonna back track and then act like you are not in the next sentence?
you said:
"Bass is of great importance both subjectively and objectively I guess."

So you are guessing it is, or not sure, or not wanting to upset Amir?
Maybe I do not agree with anything you say,....too wishy washy. Sorry to have even Pmed you.

I think Amir can take being questioned about how he reviews things, as long as it is done politely.
Maybe you will agree or not agree about that....

 

[abdo123]

I thought the bottom thing was some kind of port. Alas, it seems to just be a belly button.

Reminds me of the cosmetic 'tweeter' on some logitech speakers

 

[wwenze]

Okay, you win the obtuse award.
Truly sorry I agreed with anything you say.
So you can then say we do not agree.

I think you are trying to have it both ways. Question how the ratings go, but then say "oh wait I really get it is about the bass", /........so why bother even questioning how the ratings are done, if you are gonna back track and then act like you are not in the next sentence?
you said:
"Bass is of great importance both subjectively and objectively I guess."

So you are guessing it is, or not sure, or not wanting to upset Amir?
Maybe I do not agree with anything you say,....too wishy washy. Sorry to have even Pmed you.

I think Amir can take being questioned about how he reviews things, as long as it is done politely.
Maybe you will agree or not agree about that....

Some people take courtesy as a sign of weakness I guess.

 

[LightninBoy]

Reminds me of the cosmetic 'tweeter' on some logitech speakers

WTF? Is that real?

 

[wwenze]

WTF? Is that real?

Logitech z333, yea. No prize for guessing why the next version, z337, doesn't have that "tweeter".

And it works. In the sense that I have read a review of z333, and the person said the treble sounds clear because of the tweeter. Yay "feelings-based" reviews.

And I'm pretty sure this brand isn't the only one that does that. I mean, most speakers don't get you a tweeter until you reach the US$70 to 100 mark, and often it is still those 0.5-inch toy-looking stuff that look like they came from an 80's radio. So when a $30 speaker has a tweeter, that is a pretty red flag. At least Logitech made a decent attempt at hiding, I've seen some that are just solid plastic.

 

[Ron Texas]

It totally amazes me that a company with resources like ML could market speakers that measure so poorly. Thank you @amirm . Is it my imagination, or are ribbon tweeters problematic?

 

[temps]

MartinLogan produced a small ESL called the Electromotion, of a similar size to the LRS above. I had one briefly, it sounded awful.
I have super tweaked Quad 989's, and could see nothing of value in the Electromotion other than good looks and a small form factor, relatively speaking.
My Quads fill the room with quality sound, the Electromotion did nothing for aural excitation.

Panel speakers need a large surface area to operate correctly.

I have precisely the opposite opinion, the ESL sounds fantastic and doesnt require any room treatment. The Quads are horrific, with about the flattest, most unexciting bass you can get from a speaker. They've been unchanged for how many decades now? It beggars belief that such an old design is any good by a modern standard.

 

[F1308]

If I wasn't they'd be replaced.

They're not for everybody. You like them or you don't.

Low distortion, good impulse and step, they throw a flat phase response to the listener (without gating or other cheats in the measurement), take EQ well, and have plenty of faults if you are comparing them to what is considered scientifically preferable around here.

They would probably measure with some similarities to the Magnepan LRS, which at some point actually scored a negative value in the ratings here at ASR.

They show up on the used market for $1~$2000 from time to time, if you're interested.

Thank you...
I have a pair of Mythos going since 2009...and very happy also.

 

[F1308]

Reminds me of the cosmetic 'tweeter' on some logitech speakers

View attachment 101836

Of course it is not a tweeter !
It is clearly a hidden camera !!
Or a provision for placing one !!!!

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Excuse me Amir, but these are the most obvious satellite speakers you've tested. Previous NHTs at least have "bookshelf"-like look
Sure you can buy them and use even as a floorstanders but in real life these are just cheap multichannel satellites.
I also suspect that they're designed to be used rather off-axis.

Their electrostatic models sound amazing despite poor measurements, they are lightyears ahead of typical pair of boring $2-3k "traditional" speakers IMO. Yep sure, the sound is not flawless, it's a bit specific but very exciting.

I also suspect that AMT-based Logans are something like Emotiva, an "optimal price" Chinish designs.

Light years behind

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

It totally amazes me that a company with resources like ML could market speakers that measure so poorly. Thank you @amirm . Is it my imagination, or are ribbon tweeters problematic?

Problematic

 

[panther]

Ouch, I had bought these and a pair of 35XTI after not really enjoying the ELAC DBR62 and getting massive headaches from the Triangle BR03 (which I loved the actual sound of).