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Mark Waldrep In Trouble AGAIN

svart-hvitt

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This topic has gone viral and is active on many forums. I suspect that Mark is well aware of that.
Mr. Rubinson,

given your experience with power products it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on power chords and power cleaners.

On Audioqiest’s Niagara products you wrote:

«I love what the Niagara 5000s and 1000 and the rest of the AudioQuest kit have done for the sound of my system».

You indicated that the Audioquest kit of about $13.000 took away 3-4 dB worth of noise:

«One consequence of the lower system noise with the Niagaras is that my new normal listening level is 3–4dB lower than before».

Source: https://www.stereophile.com/content...designs-audioquest-page-2#HbQ76OCQrfqp1T0o.99
 

andreasmaaan

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I'm just saying what a lawyer would say. All I would have to do would be to show that such measurements would be heavily influenced by:
  1. Orientation of phone
  2. Proximity of phone to other objects
  3. Position of people in the room relative to me and the speakers
  4. Background noise, chatter, contact with hand, contact with clothing, etc.
  5. Settings such as averaging
  6. the exact timing of the music versus display updates, etc.
And that all of the above would be uncontrolled and applicable in the alleged demonstration. Not to mention that the person doing the measuring may be unconsciously affecting the results in line with his expectations by manipulating the above.

I would also make a point of asking whether the phone was a recognized, calibrated measuring instrument (of course not). I might even do a noddy demonstration with my own phone. I might even examine the small print of the app which, no doubt, says "For fun and education purposes only" or some such.

Really, this phone story is nothing more than an unsubstantiated anecdote. If people here are seriously thinking it proves something then that might explain a lot about why DSP/measurements-based systems sound so awful so often: the people setting them up haven't got a clue about the precautions needed when making meaningful measurements.
I think you might have missed the key point that Mark himself was using a calibrated microphone, not a smartphone.

Otherwise, everything you've said applies.
 

andreasmaaan

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How about a lawyer just asking the cable seller to justify their claims?? View attachment 13788
Would love for this to be possible, but it would not be a relevant question, as their claims are so nebulous to begin with.

What would be tested in a legal case would be Mark's claim that the demonstrator secretly adjusted the volume between plays. This would be hard to prove, even on the balance of probabilites (i.e. greater than 50% likely), since there are all sorts of confounding factors to do with the microphone and measurement conditions and other variables.

This is why I think Mark would have been best off stating his observations in full, noting the inexplicable apparent (measured, albeit under suboptimal conditions) changes in SPL level between demonstrations, and then putting the evidence to the manufacturer for an explanation (or a "fuck off", which then also could have been published, no doubt to some effect).
 

andreasmaaan

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Wombat

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Ah yes perhaps, I just realised we were at cross-purposes! I was under the impression we were discussing a possible defamation (libel) claim against Mark.

In terms of the FTC, it depends on which company it was and what their specific claims were.
Or if the demonstration did/did not not include fraudulent practice or intent.

The organizers had to be aware of Mark's attitude to unsubstantiated claims re audio topics. Even so, he was an accepted member of the group. The reaction to his blog by the Society management was somewhat incredulous given his professed viewpoints. Surprise? Only if naïve. It could have been handled a lot better. Amateurs in damage control and credibility status - not Mark.

Could it be a case of waiting for an issue to discredit and reject him? On the basis of evidence it fails. On the power of bureaucracy it may work within the group.

Yes, some speculation here. Oh, well, life goes on.
 
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andreasmaaan

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Or if the demonstration did/did not not include fraudulent practice or intent.

The organizers had to be aware of Mark's attitude to unsubstantiated claims re audio topics. Even so, he was a member of the group. The reaction to his blog by the Society management was somewhat incredulous given his professed viewpoints. Surprise? Only if naïve. It could have been handled a lot better. Amateurs in damage control and credibility status - not Mark.
Really? It seems to me that Mark is the only one who's lost anything from this. The manufacturer remains unnamed, and the organisers of the show retain the confidence of their (apparently sometimes fraudulent) clients.
 

Wombat

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Really? It seems to me that Mark is the only one who's lost anything from this. The manufacturer remains unnamed, and the organisers of the show retain the confidence of their (apparently sometimes fraudulent) clients.
Or mark has reinforced his standing in the eyes of his supporters and re his blog.

Wouldn't it be good if we could avoid the audio personalities and be aware of and confident in the performance truth about audio gear.
 

andreasmaaan

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Or mark has reinforced his standing in the eyes of his supporters and re his blog.

Wouldn't it be good if we could avoid the audio personalities and be aware of and confident in the performance truth about audio gear.
He already had the support of his supporters. He's now lost his place with the society.

No other party has lost anything of significance.

It could have been executed more effectively.

And yes, it would be good if the personalities could be taken out of it. But we're all only human ;)
 

Wombat

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He already had the support of his supporters. He's now lost his place with the society.

No other party has lost anything of significance.

It could have been executed more effectively.

And yes, it would be good if the personalities could be taken out of it. But we're all only human ;)
Scientific process actively endeavours to exclude human bias. It's a pity that humans, generally, are resistant to impartiality.
 

Wombat

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He already had the support of his supporters. He's now lost his place with the society.

No other party has lost anything of significance.

It could have been executed more effectively.

And yes, it would be good if the personalities could be taken out of it. But we're all only human ;)
The credibility of the Society is obviously in question.
 

SIY

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Just remember that re: calibration, we're talking about relative, not absolute levels.

For iPhone SPL measurements, I've used the iSEMcon 725TR, which is specifically calibrated for that purpose.
 

DonH56

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On smartphone calibration: Absolute accuracy is not required in this case; it is a relative measurement from one test to another. No matter how far off the baseline the phone's measurement may be, odds are a relative difference is still reasonable from one trial to the next.

This episode doesn't really do anyone any favors but seems to happen all too often these days. To conduct what may be a fraudulent test, deny it, and expel the whistleblower seems typical. Blame everything (and everyone) but the real root cause and suppress all evidence to the contrary.
 

Cosmik

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Are people missing the central point, which is: it is a terrible thing to accuse someone of dishonesty, bad practice, etc. in the knowledge that the accusations can damage reputations and, who knows, somewhere down the line result in loss of livelihood or imprisonment..!

Although we all know that cables do not affect the sound, many people do not. It is entirely possible for a sales rep to fully believe what they are selling (i.e. deluding themselves) and this is no different from anyone selling any product. You can't just go around making accusations (with enough information in the accusation for people to work out who you're talking about) on the basis of a dodgy amateur measurement taken from under a chair in a crowded room or whatever.
 

Purité Audio

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Yet you can propose that your cables will improve sound quality, when they clearly can’t?
Keith
 

DonH56

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Are people missing the central point, which is: it is a terrible thing to accuse someone of dishonesty, bad practice, etc. in the knowledge that the accusations can damage reputations and, who knows, somewhere down the line result in loss of livelihood or imprisonment..!

Although we all know that cables do not affect the sound, many people do not. It is entirely possible for a sales rep to fully believe what they are selling (i.e. deluding themselves) and this is no different from anyone selling any product. You can't just go around making accusations (with enough information in the accusation for people to work out who you're talking about) on the basis of a dodgy amateur measurement taken from under a chair in a crowded room or whatever.
There are many posts saying Mark could have handled this better. He did not divulge specific names, although anyone there would know who it was, natch.

Cables can affect the sound. Typically much less than what people expect, but they can, and it is measurable. That said I am struggling to see how a power cable swap could raise the volume that much -- that is a major change, unless the original cord was way undersized. Questioning the reliability of the measurements seems fair; it would be great (if unlikely) if the trials could be repeated under controlled conditions. A perfect mic does not prevent one from taking imperfect measurements (mic could move, people around could move, etc. and affect the measurements -- no idea what may or may not have happened in this case, I wasn't there).

Anybody watching the news, following social media in any form, or just reading the comments on a news site would probably disagree that you can't accuse anyone of anything with no basis. Sad but true.
 

SIY

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Are people missing the central point, which is: it is a terrible thing to accuse someone of dishonesty, bad practice, etc. in the knowledge that the accusations can damage reputations and, who knows, somewhere down the line result in loss of livelihood or imprisonment..!
Damaging the reputation of a scammer is in no way terrible.
 
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