Mark Levinson 5909, new ANC wireless cans that advertise use of the Harman curve

[sprellemannen]

b) an exceedingly comfortable headphone that can be used for hours on end,

First of all, I liked to read your impressions (many give a too one-sided review of their newly bought gear). Great to read that you find them very comfortable.

 

[MayaTlab]

Headphonetestlab's results :

Headphone Test Lab test results manufacturers mark levinson no5909

Headphone Test Lab test results manufacturers mark levinson no5909

headphonetestlab.co.uk

 

[sprellemannen]

Headphonetestlab's results :

Headphone Test Lab test results manufacturers mark levinson no5909

Headphone Test Lab test results manufacturers mark levinson no5909

headphonetestlab.co.uk

A little bit strange that Mark Levinson specifies its weight (without cable) to be 340 g when it is 356 g (taking for granted that the weight claimed in the test is correct).

 

[astcal]

Yeh, saw that earlier today. Hopefully someone steps up to buy one for testing. It would be nice to have a $1000 headphone with Harman curve compliance.

hey Amir,

still waiting for your review. thinking of upgrading my Bose QC35 and this Mark Levinson may be the answer.

 

[theobserver]

hey Amir,

still waiting for your review. thinking of upgrading my Bose QC35 and this Mark Levinson may be the answer.

I know your question was addressed to someone else, but let me give you a few pointers.

Apart from the obvious, that is, that you can get 3 sets (maybe 4 depending which country you're buying from) of brand new QC35s for the price of a single pair of 5909s, the Bose still has the following advantages: a) better noise cancellation, b) slightly better comfort (the QC35 remains the most comfortable ANC headphone of any in the market today, period), and c) the form factor for travelling purposes (the QC35 and Sony XM3/4 are still the best in this particular area).

The 5909 will offer you better sound quality across the whole spectrum, and I don't say the following lightly: the difference isn't small — even your average Joe, who doesn't pay much attention to differences in SQ, and/or possibly believes more bottom end = better sound, they will notice. Oftentimes you see people raving about more expensive offerings, and trashing cheaper ones, simply because they're, well, more expensive (I've personally heard several much cheaper models outperforming so-called premium headphones).

The 5909 not only offers better build quality that most, if not all, models out there of wireless headphones, but even the accessories included match the build quality of the headphone itself, something that can't be said of any of the premium models out there.

The usual piece of advice: If you can, and no matter what anyone says, try it out for yourself and judge for yourself. I personally was a little sceptical after a few posts/graphs here and there.

 

[MayaTlab]

The 5909 will offer you better sound quality across the whole spectrum, and I don't say the following lightly: the difference isn't small

The usual piece of advice: If you can, and no matter what anyone says, try it out for yourself and judge for yourself. I personally was a little sceptical after a few posts/graphs here and there.

Aren't these two propositions a little bit contradictory ?

I can only encourage @astcal to follow the latter advice indeed given that the one point that seems the most problematic with them for some people (trebles response) is one where some individual variations are quite likely to occur. Add that to some degree of sample variation and coupling issues and these headphones are definitely, to me, in the "try before you commit to buy them" category.

 

[theobserver]

Aren't these two propositions a little bit contradictory ?

Not quite.

Even with the treble lift I do hear on the 5909 in a region that is, to me, totally inoffensive, the rendering of high frequencies is indeed a step up from my recollection of the QC35's treble. The QC35's treble, as I remember it, was 'polite'/adequate, yes, (read: with no offensive peaks) but quite digitised sounding as far as timbre goes. So, yes, I maintain that all frequencies are (and not by a small margin mostly) a step up from those found on the QC35.

 

[Bugal1998]

For anyone interested, here are my subjective thoughts on the 5909. I have a Sony Wh-1000xm2 and Wh-1000xm4 available for comparison.

----------
Cliff’s Notes…
Would love to love them... But I don't. Bluetooth calling is broken (will be returning my copy), ANC is mediocre at best, sound quality is nice but not perfect to these ears (brighter overall tonality with slight treble edginess, and bass lacks 'impact'), build quality is superb, the finish is beautiful, comfort is good.
----------

Been using them for a few days. Firmware updated to 1.5.0.5.

Bluetooth functionality—
Out of the box it took repeated attempts to connect via Bluetooth before an 'unable to pair' error stopped occurring. I've never experienced that error with any other Bluetooth device I've used in the past.

Once connected and firmware updated it connects just fine for music. Unfortunately the headphone powers off during Bluetooth phone calls after a matter of seconds, every single time; this renders a critical piece of functionality unusable and it will be returned.

ANC performance—
Disappointing... The Sony XM4 has noticeably better ANC than the XM2, and the XM2 offers significantly better attenuation than the 5909. Based on my copy, I'd say ML's ANC tech is three to four generations behind Sony. ANC performance is what I would expect out of a no-name headphone for $150, not a premium brand headphone selling for $1000. If my sample is representative, ML needs to step up their ANC game if they want to be a competitor in the premium space.

Comfort and Build-
Comfort is acceptable for me. I appreciate the extra ear cup space, as the Sony pinches my ear against the arms of my glasses... On long flights this equals "ouch!". Build quality appears beyond reproach and they're beautifully finished.

Sound Quality-
Sound is superior to the mid-bass dominate 'muddiness' of the Sony XM2 and XM4, but trends toward a bright(ish) overall tonality to my ears, and IMHO needs further refining. At a minimum a treble control is needed to take the slight edginess off the treble. A gentle slope was all I needed to bring the edginess and tonality into line with my preference and smooth out the experience.

Bass is the opposite… a little too soft and smooth for my preference; where’s the impact and excitement when called for?

Conclusion-
Sound quality definitely didn’t wow me, but it’s nice enough compared to alternatives that if ANC was the only disappointment I’d be tempted to keep them, however, poor ANC with broken Bluetooth functionality is a deal-breaker.

Will be interesting to see what Amir’s testing eventually reveals.

 

[amirm]

I will review my sample soon....

 

[RJO]

Mine was returned awhile back but remembered I could never get the bass to sound right in passive/wired mode, even when EQ'd or switched to a beefier amp.

However, in ANC mode, the result can become quite transformative when tuned correctly with EQ; probably the best sounding experience I've had with a HP, surpassing my Aeon 2 Noire (w/ Denon PMA600) and Grado RS2e (EQ'd w/ Radone ES100).

Under that mode, where I think the well-implemented DSP gets engaged, there's deep bass and it delivered a nice and clean dynamic range across and even sounded open with a wide soundstage (the larger ear cups may have helped here). When switching back to the Noire I suddenly heard resonance from the cups which I never noticed before.

I might reconsider purchasing it if ever they release a firmware in their control apps mainly to tame the treble sharpness, but I'm not hopeful. Nevertheless, for me it's the best BT out there, especially when EQ'd.

 

[theobserver]

I've had my 5909s nearly 4 months and I have mixed feelings about its performance.

Not sure whether the firmware update released a while back actually made things worse SQ-wise or not, but here's is my current take.

Basically, I don't usually use the MLs with ANC on, but I noticed on a recent flight that when I enabled ANC the bass is quite bloated, or at least it is compared to when ANC is disabled, wireless or not — this isn't just a couple of dBs we're talking about, this becomes a totally different sounding headphone when ANC is enabled. It is often the case that with ANC headphones when ANC is enabled, bass is lifted, but in this case the difference isn't small, to put it mildly.

Not sure either whether the firmware update affected other settings — I hear a small difference in SQ between neutral and enhanced bass when in wireless-only mode. Seems to me enhanced bass is now sounding more convincing, yet I recall feeling bass neutral was the best sounding and fairly close, too, to using this headphone in passive mode. At leat when using enhanced bass, the difference is rather subtle but clearly audible, not the bloated mess, I'm sorry to say, when in ANC mode.

I have to be honest and say that I'm rather disappointed. Not only did the only firmware we've had so far didn't fix other issues (on-head detection is still hit and miss, and we still only get 16 volume steps on Apple devices), but SQ may have actually got worse.

 

[theobserver]

I forgot to mention yesterday that I found it extremely odd —and very disappointing, actually, even after having contacted them— that ML/Harman would not provide any notes on the release of the firmware update. Sennheiser, Bang & Olufsen, Bose, Sony, Master & Dynamic and Jabra, to name but a few, all provide notes detailing what issues have been addressed/features added whenever there's a new FW update.

One would expect that a company like ML, marketing and selling premium audio products, would at the very least allow their customers to find out what's actually going on when a new FW is released.

 

[MayaTlab]

I forgot to mention yesterday that I found it extremely odd —and very disappointing, actually, even after having contacted them— that ML/Harman would not provide any notes on the release of the firmware update.

Mark Levinson got the memo from Apple, it's now become unfashionable to provide release notes .

 

[theobserver]

Mark Levinson got the memo from Apple, it's now become unfashionable to provide release notes .

Good to know, then, this has now become a fashion-related issue.

 

[MayaTlab]

Nothing too surprising measurements-wise : https://www.0db.co.kr/REVIEW_0DB/2410105

 

[Bugal1998]

Nothing too surprising measurements-wise : https://www.0db.co.kr/REVIEW_0DB/2410105

When sharing my experiences I noted the defects with the unit in my possession... If other units exhibit better ANC and bass performance I may give a different sample a try.

His measured ANC figures wouldn't suggest the lackluster performance I experienced (at least not to my untrained eyes)... I wonder if my defective unit impacted the ANC and bass performance in some way as well?

 

[MayaTlab]

When sharing my experiences I noted the defects with the unit in my possession... If other units exhibit better ANC and bass performance I may give a different sample a try.

His measured ANC figures wouldn't suggest the lackluster performance I experienced (at least not to my untrained eyes)... I wonder if my defective unit impacted the ANC and bass performance in some way as well?

Was your unit defective... or are the test results not matching 100% the on-head behaviour of the ML5909 ?

No idea about ANC but for what it's worth I never got anywhere near the same FR between ANC on (low, high or adaptive) and off with two different samples as what the tests on 45CA-like fixtures seem to suggest (to be noted here is that while SoundStageSolo and HeadphoneTestLab use GRAS fixtures, they don't use, unless I'm mistaken, the hammerhead-style fixture that Sean Olive, 0dB, ASR use - I believe that Resolve uses Aliexpress' mounting rig which is a little bit different from the 45CA but perhaps close enough - and their ANC on vs off results are different from the others).

In addition to this thread, in this other thread several people reported audible differences between the modes :

Mark Levinson № 5909 headphone

Of course the taste for every person is different, and for me the bass with ANC off and bass setting in "neutral" position is very satisfactory. This is how I listening 80% of the time my 5909 (the other 20% is mix of ambient or ANC on with bass in "neutral" position always). For curiosity...

www.head-fi.org

Not that I'm surprised about it in the slightest.

Perhaps ANC also suffers one way or another from coupling issues.
The Airpods Max's theoretical ANC seems quite excellent, but when moving my head in fairly extreme positions it's rather easy to introduce more leakage than it can handle, given the rather peculiar pivot mechanism, for example.
With the ML5909 the ANC off results I obtained with in-ear mics suggest the presence of some degree of leakage (but it isn't obvious where it is coming from and can't be fully cured by pressing against the pads), perhaps that impacts the ANC results as well ?

 

[Bugal1998]

Was your unit defective... or are the test results not matching 100% the on-head behaviour of the ML5909 ?

I bought the headphone for high quality Bluetooth music and strong noise canceling, so I only tested using Bluetooth connection with ANC on high. I can't speak to tonality differences in different modes, because I don't care to use any other modes.

My experience with other harman curve-ish headphones (AKG K371, and a few newer JBL headphones), and headphones EQ'd to the harman curve (HD800s, Focal Clear Pro, PSB M4U2, and ATH M50x) suggests there was a clear peak in the upper treble as shown in a number of 5909 measurements using high ANC.

The Bluetooth functionality was definitely defective on my unit (headset powered off every time I placed a call despite having a stable Bluetooth connection). The ANC was also very weak, far behind my Sony Wh-1000xm2... No comparison really.

So the bluetooth was defective, and I'm wondering if possibly the ANC was also defective. I do wear glasses and perhaps the 5909 just wouldn't seal around my glasses (the Sony and bose models have no issue, so I'd be surprised and disappointed if that's the problem with the 5909)? Eitherway, my experience was underwhelming. And a poor seal or possibly under-performing ANC may have impacted my perception of bass performance.

Unfortunately, all I can do is speculate, so I continue to follow the experiences of others with interest.

 

[RJO]

The new Master & Dynamic MW75 appears to have a similar build and Beryllium driver-coating applied. Who knows, it may be under the same make with just a different software and lack of Harman tuning involved...or advertised.

Master & Dynamic's MW75 headphones pair a fresh design with adaptive ANC

Master & Dynamic's latest headphones offer up to 32 hours of battery life and noise cancellation that adjusts automatically.

www.engadget.com

At $599 it's considerably lower (to be honest that's a price point I would pay for, to keep a 5909) but we don't know about performance. Also, lack of LDAC is disappointing as that's how I would've paired it with a DAP for travel, which the 5909 supports.

 

[WDitters]

I have not been able to compare them, but since MW75 indeed does not support LDAC I suspect that the audible difference between APTX-HD and LDAC on the ML 5909 to be indicative for the difference between MW75 and ML5909. LDAC definitely beats APTX-HD on the ML5909

Also the FCC filings prove that they definitely come from the same OEM manufacturer but are built to different specs and tuning. Given M&Ds house sound I suspect the MW75 to be a tad less resolving and somewhat more V-shaped... For me enough to stick with the ML5909 and not 'downgrade' to the MW75

And lastly, supposedly the space inside the MW75 earcups is somewhat narrower which could definitely be of influence sound wise and comfortwise...