OP
- Thread Starter
- #161
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March Audio Sointuva Speaker
- Thread starter March Audio
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These look really good, and the purifi drivers really add to the unique look of the speakers! Well done! Looks like the measure well too!
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Are you going with foam-wrapped and tied-down cables, like I see inside loudspeakers these days?
One microscopic vibration or resonance and the entire ASR membership will go completely nuts.
One microscopic vibration or resonance and the entire ASR membership will go completely nuts.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #164
Astroboydivx
Member
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- Oct 6, 2020
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Sorry for being a dummy but my science knowledge is limited to enterprise networking not acoustics and sound waves. I’d like to know how they compare to Kef R3 and Revel M105 given there’s a price premium to these ones. I have kef ls50s and am figuring out my upgrade speakers to make better use of my March Audio P452. Thanks!
Two of the most advanced drivers on the market for their sizes implemented properly, at a price that's probably the lowest by some distance you will ever see for both of them together. That's crazy good pricing for what it offers. The midwoofer in particular will obliterate the R3 and M105 throughout the bass and midrange in terms of extension, distortion and headroom. We are talking a 6.5" midwoofer that has rewritten the performance envelope for that size decisively (impressive considering that's one of the most hotly-contested segments in the industry). It has bass performance like a good 8" woofer, and in one case a decent 12" woofer with a quarter the radiating area.
The M105 is properly speaking a size class smaller so the performance gap is even larger than with an 6.5" speaker. The R3 will have an advantage in dispersion and treble because of the 3-way coaxial + woofer construction, but the bass and midrange won't keep up. I'd take the KEF Reference 1 over the March, but that's a whole higher price segment.
Lorenzo74
Senior Member
@March Audio , excellent implementation.
I’m wondering if a waveguided tweeter (see Hificompass) would have helped in keeping constant directivity.
I’m also wondering about composite materials instead of wood.
I’m also curious on crossover, since passive, is it 12 or 24dB/octave ? (I assume air core and quality caps are a must...) a picture would be nice.
what about a 6.5 woofer in the back one on the side and a 4” in the front? With active and dsp you can do some cardioid bass helping room integration.. same concept than Kii.
however purifi is the best 6.5“ today and Bliesma with Viawave is topping any tweeter ranking.
Fantastic drivers quality at a “very good price point”. if you manage to produce it in quantity you have a killer product.
congratulations
my Best
L.
I’m wondering if a waveguided tweeter (see Hificompass) would have helped in keeping constant directivity.
I’m also wondering about composite materials instead of wood.
I’m also curious on crossover, since passive, is it 12 or 24dB/octave ? (I assume air core and quality caps are a must...) a picture would be nice.
what about a 6.5 woofer in the back one on the side and a 4” in the front? With active and dsp you can do some cardioid bass helping room integration.. same concept than Kii.
however purifi is the best 6.5“ today and Bliesma with Viawave is topping any tweeter ranking.
Fantastic drivers quality at a “very good price point”. if you manage to produce it in quantity you have a killer product.
congratulations
my Best
L.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #168
Thank you for the kind words.
Due to the tweeter being capable of very low frequencies (1.3kHz) a wave guide isnt required to match the directivity at crossover.
Hope you understand Im not going to talk in too much detail about the xo
.They used the 25mm version. This uses the 34mm version, so it can handle the lower crossover on its own.
ctrl
Major Contributor
Can you share horizontal frequency response measurements from deg0-90 with us?
Especially with a low crossover frequency of the Bliesma 34mm I would expect a significant widening in the radiation in the range 2-5kHz. I am curious how you solved the problem.
A high crossover frequency with low order should counteract this a little bit, but this results in worse vertical radiation and higher IMD due to Doppler effects (at high sound pressure levels in the low frequency range).
OP
- Thread Starter
- #171
Sorry, not going to share everything hope you understand. Polar plot has been posted. You can also see the effect in the predicted in room plot that was posted.
As mentioned previously the sound power isn't perfect 2 to 6 kHz, but its not leading to any significant issues for the in room response or audible issues.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #172
In room after a few teaks and different measurement set-up with better LF accuracy. Will be making final measurements this week which will further improve the LF measurement
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Lorenzo74
Senior Member
I’m not concerned about low crossover point. also klipsch and Kii audio cross around 1.5 but use waveguide to control directivity. Better to narrow the tweeter at 1.5 to match its directivity at higher frequency. Do you agree?
The woofer has wide directivity as the crossover point though.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #175
Lorenzo74
Senior Member
that's why clever design address woofer directivity properly, not only tweeter. to name few:
-Grimm LS1 wide baffle to narrow directivity down to 300Hz
-Dutch & Dutch with side opening (similar to open baffle)
-Kii three with DSP cancelling down to 50Hz rear and lateral radiation
the rest of the world is to me "classic" design controlling only the upper half of the frequency spectrum leaving the bass, low mid and mid uncontrolled, at the mercy of the room.
if you look at impulse response you will see how much early floor, sidewalls and ceiling reflections can affect timing perception (imaging) and mask the attack of instruments... but this is another chapter.
my Best
OP
- Thread Starter
- #177
Yes we know that, but this is entirely intended to be a "classic" passive design aimed at a certain part of the market.
The products you mention are active are far, far more expensive and aimed at a different market.
Grim is $22k
Kii is $17k
DD is $12.5k
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Lorenzo74
Senior Member
Yes we know that, but this is a "classic" design
Which is why it doesn't cost many times as much
totally agree, you are spot on and just put me in the make/buy dilemma...
(as said here, months ago, purifi and bliesma are the best, you just married them)
don't forget the active version pls...
have a nice evening...
ctrl
Major Contributor
As the spectrograms in VituixCAD do not show stepped color with 3dB steps, there are basically no details visible.
Can you show the spectrogram with contour lines activated (this would increase the interpretation significantly) and for comparison also the spectrogram normalized to the axis frequency response?
I think this is clear to everyone, with a "typical" loudspeaker cabinet (and without waveguide) nobody is able to achieve perfect directivity. It doesn't have to be, with good tuning it can still sound excellent.
I would use the deg0-90 frequency response measurements to compare them with a simulation of the loudspeaker to simply gain more experience in evaluating the used simulation-software.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #180
I have already told you that it isn't "perfect". The data doesn't show "perfect". Yes there is some widening in that range which the polar shows and is also reflected in the in room response.
The measurements aren't final so no I'm not going to be sharing every bit of detail about the speaker, just some indicative data.
May I politely and respectively suggest (this is the 3rd time I have said I wont be sharing everything) that if you want to know more and go beyond your "simulations" that you buy some drivers and start a bit of woodworking
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