March Audio Hypex Ncore Power Amplifiers

[Icboschert]

I'm a bit understudied compared to a lot of folks on here but can you explain how current output affects performance (less/more dynamics?). Is a jump from 30 to 40 uV output noise of any audible importance?

 

[DonH56]

I'm a bit understudied compared to a lot of folks on here but can you explain how current output affects performance (less/more dynamics?).

Output power (P) equals voltage * current so if you starve voltage or current the output will clip (distort). Power is also related to voltage (V) squared divided by impedance (resistance) and current (I) squared times impedance (resistance, R):

P = V * I = V^2 / R = I^2 * R

That means as the speaker's impedance goes down then less voltage but more current is needed to deliver the same power. So more current is good if you have low-impedance speakers or speakers that dip to low impedance across frequency (typical for many speakers). Like anything else, more is better, but paying for more than you need is a waste.

Is a jump from 30 to 40 uV output noise of any audible importance?

250 W into 4 ohms is 31.6 Vrms. Using rms noise (not sure the units) then relative to maximum power 30 uVrms is an SNR of 120.5 dB and 40 uVrms yields an SNR of 118.0 dB. So probably not much.

HTH - Don

 

[svart-hvitt]

From a sustainability (flexibility in use, 2nd hand sales value etc.) point of view, would the biggest amps do earth and the 2nd and 3rd hands a favour?

Can the price jumps be explained by higher parts costs only?

Do you expect differences in measurements between amp sizes if the amps operate within their output specifications?

 

[pos]

Is a jump from 30 to 40 uV output noise of any audible importance?

That is a 2.5dB increase in residual noise. This is still pretty low though, and chances are your source will be responsible for far more noise than that with the fixed 26dB (x20) gain.
For example a DX7s has a 2.6uV residual noise on his XLR outputs, which is very low, but will result in 52uV when amplified by the amp.

In the end it might not be audible at all at your listening position: it all depends on the sensitivity of your loudspeakers, and of course the level of noise of your room. It is most probably not a concern, unless you are directly driving horns.

 

[March Audio]

That is a 2.5dB increase in residual noise. This is still pretty low though, and chances are your source will be responsible for far more noise than that with the fixed 26dB (x20) gain.
For example a DX7s has a 2.6uV residual noise on his XLR outputs, which is very low, but will result in 52uV when amplified by the amp.

In the end it might not be audible at all at your listening position: it all depends on the sensitivity of your loudspeakers, and of course the level of noise of your room. It is most probably not a concern, unless you are directly driving horns.

I test these amps with my dac1 and B&W CM5 S2 speakers which have a stated sensitivity of 88dB/W. If I place my ear flat against the tweeter I *think* I can hear the faintest of hiss with the P502. It's completely inaudible otherwise.

 

[March Audio]

From a sustainability (flexibility in use, 2nd hand sales value etc.) point of view, would the biggest amps do earth and the 2nd and 3rd hands a favour?

Can the price jumps be explained by higher parts costs only?

Do you expect differences in measurements between amp sizes if the amps operate within their output specifications?

I'm not sure I follow your first point, but I can post some pictures of the Hypex modules and let you decide parts cost
OK, putting my subjective hat on (oh the horror) FWIW the amps do sound very similar. However my view is as you go up in power each one does have better grip, control and dynamics.

 

[svart-hvitt]

I'm not sure I follow your first point, but I can post some pictures of the Hypex modules and let you decide parts cost
OK, putting my subjective hat on (oh the horror) FWIW the amps do sound very similar. However my view is as you go up in power each one does have better grip, control and dynamics.

My thought was, if The Audio Critic cartoon comes true, that you can put whatever in a small box, why not have just one amp; the one that rules them all?

It would make it easier for you to design, produce and service.

 

[March Audio]

Well...... Problem with that philosophy, however close we may be to do so in technology terms, is that it's not what the consumer wants. They want choice which ends up being based on price, performance, aesthetics and perceived VFM. You can skewer 4 holes in a tupperware box and put a Khadas board in it very cheaply, but that's not what most people want in a product.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Well...... Problem with that philosophy, however close we may be to do so in technology terms, is that it's not what the consumer wants. They want choice which ends up being based on price, performance, aesthetics and perceived VFM. You can skewer 4 holes in a tupperware box and put a Khadas board in it very cheaply, but that's not what most people want in a product.

But all the amps are equal in looks. It’s just the inside differing where you put inferior technology in the lower output ones. Right?

This is 2019. Consumerism is over. Dead. Why not make rock solid products so you don’t feel need to upgrade, ever?

 

[March Audio]

Yes. Like cars have different engine sizes, but not inferior. Each has different performance to cater for different budgets and requirements. And yes the bigger amp does cost more to make.

Consumerism is not even vaguely close to being dead.

 

[jasonq997]

But all the amps are equal in looks. It’s just the inside differing where you put inferior technology in the lower output ones. Right?

This is 2019. Consumerism is over. Dead. Why not make rock solid products so you don’t feel need to upgrade, ever?

When did consumerism die?

 

[svart-hvitt]

When did consumerism die?

Oh, I forgot to add I’m an oracle.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Yes. Like cars have different engine sizes, but not inferior. Each has different performance to cater for different budgets and requirements. And yes the bigger amp does cost more to make.

Consumerism is not even vaguely close to being dead.

It’s clearer than ever we don’t have infinite resources. So why not build your business around sustainability (too)?

 

[restorer-john]

...So why not build your business around sustainability (too)...

I'd say the amplifiers will be sustainable to be honest. The SMPS supplies can be repaired, and hopefully the amp modules themselves can be reworked due to the number of discrete SMD parts on them. Hypex will be required to have spare parts and schematics soon enough to be available to enable third party repairs and Alan will likely maintain stocks of key parts for a long time (piezo power switch, plugs/sockets etc).

At the end of life, the casework is recyclable aluminium.

 

[jasonq997]

What's with all of the hippie stuff on this site all of the sudden?

Great looking product and the prices look reasonable. I might be taking a close look at the P252 unit in a few months. Good luck with this launch.

 

[restorer-john]

...What's with all of the hippie stuff on this site all of the sudden?...

Nothing 'hippie' about repairability or recycling.

Preserve a long and useful life and dispose of it responsibly down the track. Get used to it.

 

[jasonq997]

Nothing 'hippie' about repairability or recycling.

Preserve a long and useful life and dispose of it responsibly down the track. Get used to it.

Why do I need to get used to it? You do your thing and I'll do mine.

 

[March Audio]

It’s clearer than ever we don’t have infinite resources. So why not build your business around sustainability (too)?

Because it won't be a business by following your definition so far, ie one superior and by definition more expensive amp. People won't choose a product that doesn't fit their requirements.

I don't share your definition of sustainable. Me producing just one superior amp does not make it a sustainable product. However, I think they are. The amps should have a long life and be repairable. Metals from the case and circuit are recoverable/recyclable. Being Class d they are efficient. Also, I won't be continually changing the design, there won't be a "buy the latest greatest" like the phone manufacturers.

The rest is down to changing the attitude of consumers.

 

[March Audio]

I'd say the amplifiers will be sustainable to be honest. The SMPS supplies can be repaired, and hopefully the amp modules themselves can be reworked due to the number of discrete SMD parts on them. Hypex will be required to have spare parts and schematics soon enough to be available to enable third party repairs and Alan will likely maintain stocks of key parts for a long time (piezo power switch, plugs/sockets etc).

At the end of life, the casework is recyclable aluminium.

A good point to raise around this is that however willing I may be to make a product as sustainable as possible, it isn't necessarily within my gift to control all variables.

The nature of technology advancement means that components move on and develop. Not all components will remain available for the indefinite future. This could make repairs impossible after a certain point

 

[maxxevv]

Because it won't be a business by following your definition so far, ie one superior and by definition more expensive amp. People won't choose a product that doesn't fit their requirements.

I don't share your definition of sustainable. Me producing just one superior amp does not make it a sustainable product. However, I think they are. The amps should have a long life and be repairable. Metals from the case and circuit are recoverable/recyclable. Being Class d they are efficient. Also, I won't be continually changing the design, there won't be a "buy the latest greatest" like the phone manufacturers.

The rest is down to changing the attitude of consumers.

Considering how mature amplifier tech is, there is very little to change or upgrade for quite a long while to come.

My experience of mechanical stuff I design for my customers is quite interesting at times. Functionally, the gears and mechanisms still fulfill their requirements. But their usage needs and aesthetic preferences drifted and they come back to me with these requirements to modify some external aspects of these projects I did for them as a result. And surprisingly, the external outlook and functional aspects can change a fair bit while internally they remain completely the same.

A suggestion perhaps is to update the case details every few years as I believe there are aesthetic as well as usability preference drifts as time passes by. "Fashion" some may term it. And offer these raw cases as "update options" for prior owners should they desire it.