Marantz SA-14 measurements

[JSmith]

Marantz SA-14 CD/SACD player

Thanks for testing this, @amirm homepage worthy?


JSmith

 

[DavidM1]

Good review. I’m shocked that the price would amount to more than $5000 usd today. A product at the end of the lifecycle vs the beginning is a great reminder of how demand works.

 

[PristineSound]

Sony, among other brands, used to employ copper plating and/or pure copper for the chassis and other components in their highest end players.

I am aware, I didn't say only Marantz uses copper. The 5000 series Yamaha also uses copper today.

However, why do it at all, other than to increase the material cost? Just to make the inside look pretty? There are plenty of other, cheaper non-magnetic metals/alloys they could have used for EMI/RFI shielding, etc.

Why do some car use carbon fiber for the interior when fiber glass will do just fine?

Why do some mechanical watch use gold when stainless steel will do just fine?

It's luxury, I know for some it's hard to understand, but some other's audio is a luxury good.

 

[Billy Budapest]

I am aware, I didn't say only Marantz uses copper. The 5000 series Yamaha also uses copper today.


Why do some car use carbon fiber for the interior when fiber glass will do just fine?

Why do some mechanical watch use gold when stainless steel will do just fine?

It's luxury, I know for some it's hard to understand, but some other's audio is a luxury good.

So what you are saying is that was is used just to increase the materials cost and not for any engineering reason? I thought there could potentially have been a scientific rationale that I was overlooking.

I understand about Veblen goods. I’ve written about the subject on this board.

(I say “was used” because today, it is simply cost prohibitive to use copper in this way. I checked the Yamaha 5000 webpage and they only copper plate the chassis and transformer cans. They don’t fashion the chassis out of solid copper or a copper alloy as was done by some makes in the past).

 

[horias2000]

While doing the extra measurements last night, I noticed that the transformer inside is really loud. It has the characteristic buzzing noise but it's really loud, much more than it should be, in my opinion. I will dig a bit deeper to see if there is a screw loose somewhere or there's a problem with the transformer.

 

[Haskil]

I don't see copper being used here other than by anodizing... So with a kilo of copper you anodize thousands of devices... The impact on the selling price is as small as the real effectiveness of its pretty marketing anodizing.

 

[NTTY]

Thanks... In a perfect world, I would like to see measurements for the new CD players like SMSL new products. To know if a 100$ today player is better than venerable top of the line expensive one.

The Fiio DM13 could have done better if only there wasn’t a modification of the digital signal, probably for volume control.
The Moondrop Discdream 2 ULTRA showed the exact same issue despite increased price. I stopped testing these small players for that reason, suspecting some similar implementation among them.
With that, they don’t perform better than a 40 years old CD player, as they loose linearity way too early.
Their resistance to scratched CDs is very much better than older gears, though. But their digital output is not "bit perfect", so their performances are limited by the digital data stream modification, which is too bad (even if nearly impossible to hear into music).

 

[AdrianusG]

This Marantz is clearly one of their high-end models, it has their signature internal copper chassis and copper transformers shielding addition to cooper screws. $3k USD ain't cheap, especially if you compare it with the Chinese wares that measures superbly.

For a 2002/2003 unit, the measured specs are considered excellent even for today's standards. This goes to show you that Marantz is one of the few mainstream high-end brands that actually isn't just aesthetics, which this has a load of.

I think for people like me, where aesthetics, built quality and craftsmanship matters, this is a win.

Yep,

It's the typical device you could see at Audio shows (with Acrylic cover), which it deserves!, in this case more beauty inside than out, but still

 

[Scytales]

Yep,

It's the typical device you could see at Audio shows (with Acrylic cover), which it deserves!, in this case more beauty inside than out, but still

Yet, the exterior fit and finish (and size) of this Marantz are in themselves at showroom level. That is very rewarding in a living room. I know for I have another Marantz disc player having the same aesthetics, save for a rectangular display and a centrally placed disc tray, and built.

 

[PristineSound]

So what you are saying is that was is used just to increase the materials cost and not for any engineering reason? I thought there could potentially have been a scientific rationale that I was overlooking.

I understand about Veblen goods. I’ve written about the subject on this board.

(I say “was used” because today, it is simply cost prohibitive to use copper in this way. I checked the Yamaha 5000 webpage and they only copper plate the chassis and transformer cans. They don’t fashion the chassis out of solid copper or a copper alloy as was done by some makes in the past).

The copper does supposedly provide high frequency EMF shielding. I say supposedly because is it really needed?

 

[PristineSound]

(I say “was used” because today, it is simply cost prohibitive to use copper in this way. I checked the Yamaha 5000 webpage and they only copper plate the chassis and transformer cans. They don’t fashion the chassis out of solid copper or a copper alloy as was done by some makes in the past).

The Marantz SACD 10, also $14k.

How much did this copper helped with it's performance? I don't know, the published spec is incrementally, marginally better than my 11 year old Oppo BDP-105D at less than half the cost with no copper shielding.

 

[Grenadine]

I've reactivated more than 100 CD, DVD, and SACD players in my life by cleaning the laser guide rods and lubricating them with thin lithium grease.
The same applies to worn-out belts on the drawer mechanism and drive. In many repair shops, this can quickly cost a small three-figure sum.

That's a lot of, as Amir calls them, "lubrication sessions."

 

[Count De Money]

I'm going to throw a little spanner in the works and suggest that most of the cost of this thing is actually in the metalwork, rather than the design itself. The boards do look nicely done, however, whatever the design actually is...

The mech looks to be similar if posher and suffering from the same things the cheap plastic versions do/did - dried lube on the laster-sled runners (I had a Technics 600 here a while back which tracked fine except the first playing of any disc, the thing 'jumping once' after a minute or so of the first track. Cleaning off the old grease fixed it).

u use lithium grease or something else?

 

[VintageFlanker]

Splendid work, @horias2000. Well deserved Home Page !

 

[DSJR]

u use lithium grease or something else?

I'd sooner not use anything at all. The top rapid-search Sony-based mechs of old suffered similar, the lubricated runners becoming contaminated every so often.

 

[LunaTempesta]

What a nice unit!
I'm happy though for way less money and new, we can get a similar performing Denon DCD...

 

[Labjr]

Nice review. However, I'm not sure why anyone would want a CD player anymore.

 

[Bob101]

While doing the extra measurements last night, I noticed that the transformer inside is really load. It has the characteristic buzzing noise but it's really loud, much more than it should be, in my opinion. I will dig a bit deeper to see if there is a screw loose somewhere or there's a problem with the transformer.

In my experience transformer buzz in older equipment can often be almost completely elimiated not by tightening, but loosening the screws or bolts that hold the transformer to the chassis, simply because the old 'wiggly' transformer doesn't use the chassis as a resonator any more.
If loosening improves the buzz, I just add simple DIY rubber spacers and 'tighten loosely' for a permanent solution.

 

[horias2000]

Nice review. However, I'm not sure why anyone would want a CD player anymore.

The same reasons why people buy vinyl and turntables. You either a;ready have a disc collection or you want one . I'm in the first category, I have a few CDs around from the 90s and I want to give them a spin from time to time. I wouldn't spend this much on a CD player myself, but there are many who would. I personally like to see how these older devices compare, performance wise, with newer equipment. To me, there is still a slight pleasure when I take a disc out and I use the old Marantz CD52 and the music coming out sounds really nice . It's a freaking laser reading data from a disc, this is still pretty cool . I also have a digital library, Tidal account and a decent DAC (few of them actually ). Another thing is that when these devices came out, mid 90s for my Marantz, I did not have the money to afford one and now I'm compensating . I also like to test the marketing of that times, with the TDA1540/1541. the 1-bit DACs and all the rave they were making around these technologies.

 

[Jimster480]

Wow the performance is quite good. Back then when you bought high end like that from a reputable brand; you also purchased quality engineering that 20y later proves you would get all the performance that CD could offer (basically). Which is what you would be paying for.
Today brands have just become names and lots of the designs aren't even made in house.