Marantz SA-10 Review (SACD Player & DAC)

[restorer-john]

I haven't tried the headphone output from this Marantz player, but many of their less expensive disc players have a very decent headphone output. I use the headphone output on my Marantz CD-5004 player all the time with HD-600 headphones.

There's a whole lot of BS around headphone amplifiers in general. Unless your headphones are diabolically inefficient or of such impedance extremes as to classify them as faulty, most onboard disc player headphone stages are absolutely 100% fine.

My old CD players use NE-5532s with a 100R source impedance and I've never wished for anything more with my various flat impedance AKGs. Sure, I can swing more from a standalone preamplifier H/P jack, but going deaf has never been high on my bucket list...

Your 5004 (if it's the same H/P as the 5003) uses a NJM-2068, buffered and current limited with a 150 source resistance and capacitively coupled. The dedicated "you must have a H/P amp" guys would look down their noses at both of us, but mostly, they have no idea, have never tested or measured anything and base all their 'knowledge' on internet group think sites.

In short: do what works for you.

 

[aj625]

@aj625

I love Kit Kat bars. Lots of people do. Hershey have been making them in the USA under license for 50 years. They have one of the world's great catch phrases "Have a break, have a Kit Kat". It's sold as light chocolate snack, to go with a coffee or lunch, you can have 1, 2, 3 or 4 fingers. Who doesn't like a little bit of chocolate? Apparently, most Japanese.

In Southern Japan, however, marketing executives found Kit Kat popularity amongst students at exam time. The reason was because the name sounded like "kitto katsu", which means "you must overcome". So they were eating them for good luck. To the Japanese, "Have a break, have a Kit Kat" is meaningless, research showed the last thing they would do with 10 minutes spare is eat a chocolate bar.

This is quite an extreme example, but it just illustrates that sometimes even the manufacturer doesn't know what makes their product sell. As Nestle (who own Kit Kat) found, it is best to understand and feed (literally) ethnographic preferences rather than try and change them. It just won't happen.

How does this relate to measurements ?

 

[pma]

Correct. It's primary reason for existence is to play CDs and SACDs.

Unfortunately, its CD published specifications are most disappointing for 2022.

View attachment 192375
One of my favourite Sony players, which, when tested was considerably better than spec. In 1989, 33 years ago...

View attachment 192380

I understand, but I would want to see both unit tested by the same method on the same measuring system before making any conclusion. It is difficult or close to impossible to get THD+N better than -98dB for the 44.1/16bit system. In theory you get 6.02N + 1.76dB. That’s where the best players can get. Yes we can debate on the dither used or noise shaping used, however ….

 

[Herbert]

There is a lot of cheating going on. Gone are the times of reliable mechanics.
Marantz touted a "newly developed" SACD-M3 transport for the SA-10
but they simply called the the whole mech including the tray SACD-M3!
The core is an off the shelf drive from Toshiba that Marantz simply put on two heavy aluminium blocks.
This drive from Toshiba can be found in any SACD-Player and as far as I understand also DVD,
as wavelengths are the same.
Here are some pics from an SA-11 repair:

Marantz SA-11S1 CD player Basic Reno/Service. WARNING - PIC HEAVY.

Some have asked me for a run down on how to swap out the laser in the Marantz SA-11S1. So here it is. Disclaimer. I will not be responsible if your inability to do this task results in your cat imploding or any other issues. If in doubt, DON'T. Tools needed; Phillips number 1 and 2, Flat blade nu...

www.stereonet.com

 

[symphara]

Thank you for the review!

I've actually seen and listened to this product on a number of occasions (somebody I know has one).

It sounds fine, it looks nice, it's overpriced (in my opinion) and the lack of analog multichannel output of course makes multichannel SACD playback impossible. Not everyone cares about that but multichannel is a core SACD feature.

This product isn't bad but it's primary thing is the "high cost thus high-end" satisfaction which is of course silly but real.

I'd be curious to see one of these new Reavon players tested, are they selling them in the US?

 

[Doodski]

There is a lot of cheating going on. Gone are the times of reliable mechanics.
Marantz touted a "newly developed" SACD-M3 transport for the SA-10
but they simply called the the whole mech including the tray SACD-M3!
The core is an off the shelf drive from Toshiba that Marantz simply put on two heavy aluminium blocks.
This drive from Toshiba can be found in any SACD-Player and as far as I understand also DVD,
as wavelengths are the same.
Here are some pics from an SA-11 repair:

Marantz SA-11S1 CD player Basic Reno/Service. WARNING - PIC HEAVY.

Some have asked me for a run down on how to swap out the laser in the Marantz SA-11S1. So here it is. Disclaimer. I will not be responsible if your inability to do this task results in your cat imploding or any other issues. If in doubt, DON'T. Tools needed; Phillips number 1 and 2, Flat blade nu...

www.stereonet.com

I'm surprised. For this expense I expected to see a linear drive sled assembly. Sony included that in high end CD players.

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

The Marantz guys should join a Topping workshop

 

[juliangst]

The Marantz guys should join a Topping workshop

Why would they? I doubt that any of their customers give a f*** about measurements

 

[nikosidis]

Why would they? I doubt that any of their customers give a f*** about measurements

Nothing wrong with the measurements on this player.

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

Clearly disappointing for this price.

 

[aj625]

Nothing wrong with the measurements on this player.

What is so special about measurements anyway, considering it's price tag ? People should buy it for the looks or weight or for brand name or for it's premium price tag ? In fact there is no point in spending so much for this level of measurements. Marantz should concentrate on improving the performance instead of making it heavier and bigger. I bet even a $700 chord mojo 2 will beat it for the sq and measured performance at 1/10th price.

 

[juliangst]

What is so special about measurements anyway, considering it's price tag ? People should buy it for the looks or weight or for brand name or for it's premium price tag ? In fact there is no point in spending so much for this level of measurements. Marantz should concentrate on improving the performance instead of making it heavier and bigger. I bet even a $700 chord mojo 2 will beat it for the sq and measured performance at 1/10th price.

Good measurements != good sound

 

[restorer-john]

I'm surprised. For this expense I expected to see a linear drive sled assembly. Sony included that in high end CD players.

I don't think anyone is making a linear motor laser sled, BSL spindle motor drive mech anymore. Those days are gone.

 

[sarumbear]

Not irrelevant to me, and I'm clearly not alone because there are labels releasing music I want to buy but who don't make that music available via streaming services or digital download. The main one for me is Dutton Vocalion who issue a lot of extremely good recordings including lots of modern British/Anglosphere classical music. They issue hybrid SACDs, typically with 5.1 and stereo DSD and a stereo Red Book layer. They have a market with demand and they sell discs, not downloads or subscriptions. If you want what they have and don't want to wait several years until they allow it onto streaming/download/subscription then you have to buy the disc. And if you want the 5.1, not just the stereo then again - buy the SACD.

I'm 55 and so far have heard that CDs are extinct, vinyl is extinct, DVD is extinct, Blu-ray is extinct, SACD is extinct, wired headphones are extinct, paper books are extinct, newspapers are extinct etc. etc. They were right about audio cassettes and 8-track cartridges, vellum parchment, and MiniDisc, but some formats survive because they serve a purpose and a meet a demand, even if it's not mainstream.

I did say for all practical reasons, which are, but you are part of a very small group that your purchases doesn't even register in the sales figure, hence the use of the word "practical".

 

[nikosidis]

What is so special about measurements anyway, considering it's price tag ? People should buy it for the looks or weight or for brand name or for it's premium price tag ? In fact there is no point in spending so much for this level of measurements. Marantz should concentrate on improving the performance instead of making it heavier and bigger. I bet even a $700 chord mojo 2 will beat it for the sq and measured performance at 1/10th price.

It is nothing special but it is nothing wrong with them. Some stuff really measure bad. If you think about what is audible I doubt this player will sound less good than anything else. You might even prefer it to something that measure better. That would be personal preferences and nothing else though.

 

[Doodski]

I don't think anyone is making a linear motor laser sled, BSL spindle motor drive mech anymore. Those days are gone.

All the more reason(s) to hang onto those CDP drives that you have with linear motor sled drives. Those are the pinnacle of CD player technology.

 

[DWI]

How does this relate to measurements ?

It illustrates that one group with one set of values - for example believing measurements are the primary (if not the only) valid issue - may be completely irrelevant to other groups (e.g. consumer markets) with a completely different set of values.

The fact that people buy a chocolate bar because they think it brings them good luck may sound utterly mad, but it's true, and it happened because of a linguistic coincidence. I remember once in Japan driving past a temple where people were getting their cars blessed. YES; they have drive-in temples where a Shinto priest will bless your car. They probably bless audio as well.

One of the world's leading electronics brands, Canon, is blessed with spiritual virtue, being named after the bodhisattva Kannon, otherwise known as bodhisattva Avalokitasvara of the Goddess of Mercy. This is no small thing. Go to any temple and you will see thousands of them, people buy them and leave them on the temple steps just as Catholics buy candles and leave them in cathedrals.

Who's to say someone is wrong to buy a product because they think it will bring them luck, or closer to heaven, or make them a more forgiving person?

This applies to this product, because it was designed and made a perfect fit for the market for which it was produced - primarily the Japanese audio market has a completely different value system, primarily its love of spinning discs. There's no right or wrong, just different, and it's not about being wasteful audiophiles.

Hence I doubt what Amir says will have any impact on consumer behaviour, just as telling people chocolate is bad for you doesn't stop people buying it, and telling people God(s) don't exist isn't going to stop people buying Canon cameras.

 

[Timbo2]

I don't think anyone is making a linear motor laser sled, BSL spindle motor drive mech anymore. Those days are gone.

I'm imaging the thing removing a small child's finger as it shuts slowly and silently. Except from the screams of the child of course.

 

[DWI]

The last CD player I owned had a TASCAM unit with a $40 TEAC transport. TASCAM is a sister company of Esoteric that make the $3,000 VDRS transport. I emailed Pioneer Europe NV (this was 2016) and asked the difference between their two products. I still have their email response and quote verbatim below.

Hello Mr Smith, difference will be the durability of the mechanism and a
reduction of jitter, which in turn helps your DAC achieve a greater audio
conversion accuracy. To a certain level jitter is not an issue when
extracting data (computer files and the like), but when a real time DA
conversion is done to the data stream, jitter becomes very important and
can create minute timing issues in the DA conversion. Whether it would be
actually audible is another thing altogether. Audio is a very subjective.

So there you have it!

 

[TBone]

My old CD players use NE-5532s with a 100R source impedance and I've never wished for anything more with my various flat impedance AKGs. Sure, I can swing more from a standalone preamplifier H/P jack, but going deaf has never been high on my bucket list...

my pro sony dac/adc inc.5532's everywhere, lots of high quality caps etc, headphone performance is fine, except for the uncleanable scratchy volume pot tucked behind/under another board, requiring major surgery just to get at ...