Marantz SA-10 Review (SACD Player & DAC)

[charleski]

@amirm would have been nice if headphone out had been tested.

Unfortunately the headphone output ports of devices like this tend to be treated like an afterthought and ignored by any review (though sometimes a reviewer will plug in some headphones to check if it works). They generally have shockingly-high output impedance, anaemic power delivery and are soundly trounced by a $100 dedicated headamp. It would be interesting to know if the situation is any different for a kilobuck statement product like this, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[SaltyCDogg]

I would have guessed this cost more like £2k. Visually almost identical to this model costing half as much

Marantz SA-12SE SACD Player

SA-12SE is engineered and extensively tuned; combined with features such as HDAM-SA3 technology, Marantz developed SACD/CD mechanism “SACDM-3”, Marantz Musical Mastering - Stream up-sampling to DSD and filtering to ensure a performance that will bring you closer than ever to your favourite music.

petertyson.co.uk

The main difference from a functional point of view is the lack of balanced output on the model costing 'only' £3K, the rest of the specs, including the weight are pretty much the same.

 

[aj625]

Why would you want to improve the measured performance? Any improvement would be, according to the article, inaudible.

So do you mean one should spend for looks, weight, size, brand, big front fascia etc etc instead of measured performance ? If measured performance is inaudible after a certain point then there is certainly all the more "no point" in spending $7k on an equipment. Isn't it ? Or you yourself will spend "$7k" on this even after knowing about this measured performance ?

 

[nikosidis]

Because (I correct the above post) in Japan the CD is the most popular format with 70% of the market and it took a pandemic to get them interested in streaming. It had a new state-of-the-art transport (unless you could afford Esoteric) that was best launched in a premium machine.

Change of tune: Japan music fans moving from CDs to streaming services

Japanese music enthusiasts, loyal to CDs long after the rest of the world went online, have begun reaching for the eject button and switching to streaming services as artists cancel in-store events and fans stay home because of the pandemic.

www.reuters.com

Ok, no problem that people enjoy and buy a CD player.
Regarding the transport, that is very questionable at best, regarding improvement in sound quality.
The smooth operation of the mechanism is something different and something that I understand people like.

 

[DWI]

@SaltyCDogg

Not if you take off the lid.

Marantz made excellent $300 CD players, if that's what you want. The SA-10 was a premium product to launch their M3 transport and the SA-12 was the slimmed down follow-up (I referred to it above). The M3 transport has now been slimmed down and squeezed into their Model 30 streaming range, not least because the Japanese have recently discovered streaming, but with great styling it has by all accounts been a big world-wide success.

This review does seem to be the equivalent of reviewing the DAC in a Bugatti Veyron and concluding it's not a very good car and @voodooless saying he could get a new E30 every day for the next 18 years for the same money, except that I for one would prefer a Bugatti Veyron to 7,000 Topping E30's, even if only to look at it. As I have an electric car, if Bugatti did an electric version ....

 

[voodooless]

This review does seem to be the equivalent of reviewing the DAC in a Bugatti Veyron and concluding it's not a very good car and @voodooless saying he could get a new E30 every day for the next 18 years for the same money, except that I for one would prefer a Bugatti Veyron to 7,000 Topping E30's, even if only to look at it. As I have an electric car, if Bugatti did an electric version ....

18 years gets you basically the same amount of HD streaming included in the deal. Pretty sweet! And it's not comparable to a Veyron, it just looks like one. The Veyron actually has the numbers to back up the claims, this thing does not (well, other than its weight).

 

[DWI]

I would have guessed this cost more like £2k. Visually almost identical to this model costing half as much

Marantz SA-12SE SACD Player

SA-12SE is engineered and extensively tuned; combined with features such as HDAM-SA3 technology, Marantz developed SACD/CD mechanism “SACDM-3”, Marantz Musical Mastering - Stream up-sampling to DSD and filtering to ensure a performance that will bring you closer than ever to your favourite music.

petertyson.co.uk

The main difference from a functional point of view is the lack of balanced output on the model costing 'only' £3K, the rest of the specs, including the weight are pretty much the same.

... and if you ask, why pay $3,000 for all that copper, well people do. It's a bit of science (EMF/RFI, that kind of thing) and a lot of anthropology, and anthropology will win every time.

 

[Bleib]

SACD research and development

Can they polish a turd?
Likely more to the CEO, shareholders and the buyer's placebo

 

[nikosidis]

If I had the Marantz SA-10 I would immediately sell it and buy something I would actually use. The days of disc spinning are limited to a few people who time forgot. Once I experienced the flexibility of CD rips and Qobuz it's very hard to go back to opening CD's, loading them with no easy method for selecting playlists. I have two Denon CD audio players and I almost never use them. Why would someone pay $7,000 for a DAC that offers medium performance? I can imagine when Marantz SA-10 owners pass away these units will end up at Goodwill for $200ish. To each his own.

Used Marantz Super Audio CD Player SA-14

shopgoodwill.com

People still play vinyl, even young people.
Not that I disagree about the fact that the use of physical formats are limited, it is still a market.
I still buy my music on CD and rip them. In my car I still use CDs.
It is a long time since I used CDs in my home stereo system but recently I have on some albums.
Problem with streaming services is that they do not do gapless playback.

 

[aj625]

... and if you ask, why pay $3,000 for all that copper, well people do. It's a bit of science (EMF/RFI, that kind of thing) and a lot of anthropology, and anthropology will win every time.

And that copper emi RFI protection should not reflect in measurements ? Or does it magically improves the sound without improving measurements ? Problem with audiophiles is that they tend to like bigger heavier golden/silver front fascia products more even if the measured performance is not good.

 

[restorer-john]

This is a disc player at first place, not the USB DAC.

Correct. It's primary reason for existence is to play CDs and SACDs.

Unfortunately, its CD published specifications are most disappointing for 2022.

One of my favourite Sony players, which, when tested was considerably better than spec. In 1989, 33 years ago...

 

[DWI]

18 years gets you basically the same amount of HD streaming included in the deal. Pretty sweet! And it's not comparable to a Veyron, it just looks like one. The Veyron actually has the numbers to back up the claims, this thing does not (well, other than its weight).

I think you missed the point!

The Bugatti Veyron audio system is made by an audiophile company that sells a $50,000 CD player. It uses a standard DAC chip (although they wipe off the name), so I presume will measure as well as a Topping E30.

Many companies design limited edition "ultimate" products as part of their research or for PR purposes. A good example is the $40,000 Rega Naiad, that resulted in the $5,000 Rega P10, probably the best value quality turntable on the planet with a revolutionary low mass design.

On the other hand, Lexus made the $350,000 LFA mainly for brand image, expecting to lose money on the project.

The SA-10 was in the middle, an "ultimate" product that was very popular and continued to sell.

 

[fricccolodics]

Unfortunately the headphone output ports of devices like this tend to be treated like an afterthought and ignored by any review (though sometimes a reviewer will plug in some headphones to check if it works). They generally have shockingly-high output impedance, anaemic power delivery and are soundly trounced by a $100 dedicated headamp. It would be interesting to know if the situation is any different for a kilobuck statement product like this, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Still, having it on the testbench is the best opportunity to clarify matters and not doing it is a wasted opportunity

 

[perdido34]

Can you rip the 20 bit layer from an sacd with a cd drive?

You can rip the Red Book layer from a hybrid (meaning one that has a Red Book layer) SACD--I've done it many times with my computer's optical disk drive.

 

[perdido34]

Still, having it on the testbench is the best opportunity to clarify matters and not doing it is a wasted opportunity

I haven't tried the headphone output from this Marantz player, but many of their less expensive disc players have a very decent headphone output. I use the headphone output on my Marantz CD-5004 player all the time with HD-600 headphones.

 

[Doodski]

Edited... off topic commentary...

 

[DWI]

And that copper emi RFI protection should not reflect in measurements ? Or does it magically improves the sound without improving measurements ? Problem with audiophiles is that they tend to like bigger heavier golden/silver front fascia products more even if the measured performance is not good.

We have you arguing the priority of measured performance and against nice styling, @voodooless, and @nikosidis why anyone would want to spin a disc rather than play a digital file. I get that, 100%. To some extent I agree.

Yet here we have a product, the first in a product line that has been highly successful, because it is very well styled, well built, there are plenty of people who can afford it, there are countries and markets where people far prefer to play CD and SACD to digital files and aren't that fussed about measurements if it sounds good.

It's a product that highlights that ASR values are not universal values and never will be. As I said, it's anthropology and ASR won't lay a scratch on it. It's well researched and there is a reading list. An example will follow.

 

[aj625]

We have you arguing the priority of measured performance and against nice styling, @voodooless, and @nikosidis why anyone would want to spin a disc rather than play a digital file. I get that, 100%. To some extent I agree.

Yet here we have a product, the first in a product line that has been highly successful, because it is very well styled, well built, there are plenty of people who can afford it, there are countries and markets where people far prefer to play CD and SACD to digital files and aren't that fussed about measurements if it sounds good.

It's a product that highlights that ASR values are not universal values and never will be. As I said, it's anthropology and ASR won't lay a scratch on it. It's well researched and there is a reading list. An example will follow.

Exactly, audiophiles value other things more than the sound quality.

 

[nikosidis]

The joy putting a disc into this thing is not deniable.
The looks are also fantastic.
People like to brag about things and they also like to think that what they have does something special.
At least it seams to do nothing wrong from the measurements.
I voted fine.

 

[DWI]

@aj625

I love Kit Kat bars. Lots of people do. Hershey have been making them in the USA under license for 50 years. They have one of the world's great catch phrases "Have a break, have a Kit Kat". It's sold as light chocolate snack, to go with a coffee or lunch, you can have 1, 2, 3 or 4 fingers. Who doesn't like a little bit of chocolate? Apparently, most Japanese.

In Southern Japan, however, marketing executives found Kit Kat popularity amongst students at exam time. The reason was because the name sounded like "kitto katsu", which means "you must overcome". So they were eating them for good luck. To the Japanese, "Have a break, have a Kit Kat" is meaningless, research showed the last thing they would do with 10 minutes spare is eat a chocolate bar.

This is quite an extreme example, but it just illustrates that sometimes even the manufacturer doesn't know what makes their product sell. As Nestle (who own Kit Kat) found, it is best to understand and feed (literally) ethnographic preferences rather than try and change them. It just won't happen.