Marantz SA-10 Review (SACD Player & DAC)

[julian_hughes]

Good one, if you need a SACD player and are an "oligarch"

For the average Joe, I'd recommend the el cheapo Sony UHD Bluray players, which also play SACD including multichannel (alas via HDMI only). BTW, the Marantz doesn't seem to have multichannel output?

And if you go for older Sony/Pioneer/Oppo multimedia player you can actually rip the DSD content as is. No conversions. Extract the multichannel or the stereo DSD or make an iso image of the disc, or do all the above. Then play the DSD on any hardware and software you like. See https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/rip-sacd-with-a-blu-ray-player.3652/
I bought my ancient Sony BDP-S490 used for £20, then later bought a BDP-S7200 for £50 (it does excellent upscaling from DVD and very good playback of Blu-ray discs and, unlike the oldest players, its Netflix client is still supported and works very nicely). The idea that people spend $7.5k to achieve what can be done for $200 or $300 is fabulous.

 

[julian_hughes]

They are for all practical reasons irrelevant. See my post here.

Not irrelevant to me, and I'm clearly not alone because there are labels releasing music I want to buy but who don't make that music available via streaming services or digital download. The main one for me is Dutton Vocalion who issue a lot of extremely good recordings including lots of modern British/Anglosphere classical music. They issue hybrid SACDs, typically with 5.1 and stereo DSD and a stereo Red Book layer. They have a market with demand and they sell discs, not downloads or subscriptions. If you want what they have and don't want to wait several years until they allow it onto streaming/download/subscription then you have to buy the disc. And if you want the 5.1, not just the stereo then again - buy the SACD.

I'm 55 and so far have heard that CDs are extinct, vinyl is extinct, DVD is extinct, Blu-ray is extinct, SACD is extinct, wired headphones are extinct, paper books are extinct, newspapers are extinct etc. etc. They were right about audio cassettes and 8-track cartridges, vellum parchment, and MiniDisc, but some formats survive because they serve a purpose and a meet a demand, even if it's not mainstream.

 

[amirm]

@amirm : how long does this unit need from closing the lid until playback of a standard CD starts?

I only tested SACD with it and I thought it was pretty fast.

 

[Music1969]

At least very good Engineering for the price.

If you own one, you can be happy, it's neutral / transparent.

 

[GWolfman]

I must say I was relieved that it did not measure poorly.

I have to admit I'm a bit surprised it did so well. At least you're getting something other than garbage, though the price is ludicrous.

 

[restorer-john]

I can imagine when Marantz SA-10 owners pass away these units will end up at Goodwill for $200ish. To each his own.

Look at the prices for TOTL flagship CD players of days gone by, online.

This Marantz unit will not sell in huge numbers and those who buy it, will do so for their collections of CDs and perhaps SACDs. The digital input is just a bonus for the buyers of the SA-10.

As for the likelihood of finding one in a Goodwill, that would be about as good odds of winning the Powerball lottery. (138 million to 1 or so)

 

[Anonamemouse]

For the many reasons listed above I voted "poor."

Just don't see the point of this thing. Anyone who owns SACDs would be best advised to purchase high quality downloads to replace that content. Unlike turntables, there's no magic tactile thrill associated with CDs.

The thing is that those "high quality downloads" usually are remastered, which most of the time does not mean an improvement in soundquality.

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

It would seem that if you can rip SACDs and play them via Roon, you're better off, even with a modest DAC, like the Topping D10 Balanced.

Can you rip the 20 bit layer from an sacd with a cd drive?

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

Heavy chassis is popular amongst audiophile. Alas that money could have been spent on technology and design to refine the measured performance.

Why would you want to improve the measured performance? Any improvement would be, according to the article, inaudible.

 

[charleski]

The SA-10 is incredibly heavy at 40 pounds. It weighs more than their Audio Video Receivers with many channels of amplification! I guess it gives comfort to owners that they have bought something of quality.

Anyone who reads Stereophile will inevitably have seen this ad, in which PrimaLuna sells their amplifiers by the lb.

 

[pma]

It would be good to test this component with this SACD test disc, otherwise the test does not make much sense:

Review and Measurements of ONKYO DV-SP503E universal player (2005)

ONKYO DV-SP503E universal player I bought this universal player in 2005 and it is still working. It is based on cheap TI PCM1742 D/A converter. It works now only with original CDs (does not read CD-R well), reads DVD and DVD-A and has troubles with SACD. So I restricted my CD measurements to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This is a disc player at first place, not the USB DAC. I am sure that the results would be good. There is also an advantage of 2 prong mains plug, no silly ground loops that often degrade 120 dB SINAD to 50-60 dB with modern DACs and class I devices when interconnected. So many complaints here on this. When it it audible (pitch etc. that depends on PC operation), the SINAD is definitely horrible.

 

[5th element]

As far as I can tell from the marketing this disc spinner converts all internal data into DSD and then uses some in house designed Marantz DAC and filtering. Not bad performance given all of that. Most in house DACs are poor.

 

[voodooless]

As far as I can tell from the marketing this disc spinner converts all internal data into DSD and then uses some in house designed Marantz DAC and filtering. Not bad performance given all of that. Most in house DACs are poor.

Some info on the "upconversion": http://www.marantz.eu/press/Marantz_Music_Mastering_Whitepaper_EN.pdf

As is clear from the filter plots Amir made, this method is clearly broken.

If the excess bits were shortened to simply remove the excess bits, audible errors would be created and any higher resolution gained would be irretrievably lost.

What?

They also talk a lot about listening tests. I bet none of these were done blind.

I also wonder if you only "benefit" from the upconversion when using PCM content. I doubt it will upconvert an SACD tot DSD 11.2.

 

[DWI]

I understand this machine was developed primarily for the Japanese market, where CD and SACD are still significant media, accounting for about a third of sales. It included a new transport, also sold as an OEM unit. The weight was in large part due to extensive internal copper isolation, also the rear plate as shown. They followed up with a version at half the price with less insulation. they made another model for the Japanese market only and a more recent one for Japan and Europe. The ability to use as a standalone DAC was an add-on To previous machines.

No interest to me as I haven’t spun a CD since 2009 and never played a SACD, but a hugely successful and desired product in relevant markets and still is.

 

[voodooless]

This is a disc player at first place, not the USB DAC. I am sure that the results would be good.

No better than what was already measured and defiantly not something one should spend $7.5k on.

 

[amirm]

Can you rip the 20 bit layer from an sacd with a cd drive?

No. CD player won't even be able to read it let alone let you copy it. SACD layer is copy protected and there are only a couple of hacks available for ripping that content.

 

[nikosidis]

It would be good to test this component with this SACD test disc, otherwise the test does not make much sense:

Review and Measurements of ONKYO DV-SP503E universal player (2005)

ONKYO DV-SP503E universal player I bought this universal player in 2005 and it is still working. It is based on cheap TI PCM1742 D/A converter. It works now only with original CDs (does not read CD-R well), reads DVD and DVD-A and has troubles with SACD. So I restricted my CD measurements to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This is a disc player at first place, not the USB DAC. I am sure that the results would be good. There is also an advantage of 2 prong mains plug, no silly ground loops that often degrade 120 dB SINAD to 50-60 dB with modern DACs and class I devices when interconnected. So many complaints here on this. When it it audible (pitch etc. that depends on PC operation), the SINAD is definitely horrible.

Why would a compact disc sound better than music on a USB storage device going into the same device?
Some think music sound better from a file as there are no mechanical parts involved.
Ground loops? With a machine with this price tag you should have all matched parts with XLR. If you have ground loops you will hear it. It is not that common.

 

[fricccolodics]

@amirm would have been nice if headphone out had been tested.
as for being overpriced i have to say that marantz cd players are built like tanks and mine has been in use for 16 years now without any problem.
Some high SINAD DACS have QC problems and will possibly not last that long

 

[voodooless]

Some high SINAD DACS have QC problems and will possibly not last that long

I can buy an E30 for almost 60 years every year for this amount of money. As for Marantz QC, so far I've had nothing but crap products from them...

 

[DWI]

Why would a compact disc sound better than music on a USB storage device going into the same device?
Some think music sound better from a file as there are no mechanical parts involved.
Ground loops? With a machine with this price tag you should have all matched parts with XLR. If you have ground loops you will hear it. It is not that common.

Because (I correct the above post) in Japan the CD is the most popular format with 70% of the market and it took a pandemic to get them interested in streaming. It had a new state-of-the-art transport (unless you could afford Esoteric) that was best launched in a premium machine.

Change of tune: Japan music fans moving from CDs to streaming services

Japanese music enthusiasts, loyal to CDs long after the rest of the world went online, have begun reaching for the eject button and switching to streaming services as artists cancel in-store events and fans stay home because of the pandemic.

www.reuters.com