Marantz NR1200 Stereo Receiver Review

[GXAlan]

Thanks for the advice. But I don't use XLR to measure analog amplifiers. Rather I use the 2.5mm 43Vrms AUX for Class-AB amplifiers like NR1200.
Here is my measurement method:
https://www.openaudiolab.com/measuring-amps/

You can run a ground wire in parallel. That’s what I did for my Marantz tests, etc.

So you run the 43Vrms AUX and then a speaker wire of any sort (14 and 16 awg works great) to connect the ground lug of your NR1200 to the ground pin on the XLR.

At least with my Marantz 2 ch gear, it always improved the AC mains spike a bit.

 

[oal]

I wonder why no avr manufacturers has come up with the idea yet.

It’s not Dirac but Yamaha provides the proprietary room correction feature for its AVR and 2.1-ch amplifiers. They claims "Environmental factors play an important role in the sonic signature of a room. The YPAO™ automatic calibration technique has been optimized for the R-N800A to deliver the ideal listening environment. YPAO™ features precision EQ, which performs exceptionally high-precision equalization with accuracy of up to 192 kHz / 64-bit audio resolution. YPAO™ R.S.C. (Reflected Sound Control) works in tandem to actively control the important early reflection sounds, automatically adjusting and optimizing how the sound is heard in your room based on the materials of your walls and your speaker placement. Enjoy the profound sound and immersive feeling unique to Hi-Fi audio - right in your own living room."
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/r-n800a/index.html

 

[oal]

You can run a ground wire in parallel. That’s what I did for my Marantz tests, etc.

I will try, thank you!

 

[peng]

Arcam FMJ SR250 stereo A/V receiver

Stereophile seldom reviews A/V receivers. We made an exception for Arcam's FMJ SR250 ($3600) because it's that unusual two-channel device: one that includes room-correction software, in this case Dirac Live. Many of us who listen in multichannel are comfortable with room correction, but a week...

www.stereophile.com

It must not have sold well. I have one that works well for its intended use

Yeah, thank you very much, that might have been the only such 2 ch device that could do what I want to do, but can you confirm that when you ran DL on it, it could in fact send the calibration sweep tone to the subwoofer as though it is an independent channel? I wonder why @Kal Rubinson never mentioned it when I was asking for suggestions of such a device, though at the time I was mainly asking about the also non existent 3 channel DAC with volume control, as that seems to be the most economical way to do 2.1 using DLBC.

Regardless, I can understand why it wouldn't sell well, at $3,600. If Denon or Marantz would just take their AVRs such as the Cinema 70, remove all internal amps but two, and implement the digital path in differential mode like they did with the NR1200, sell for $1,000, then I am sure it will sell well. Or they can just do it like the NR1200 and DRA-900H, but modify the HDMI input to become 2.1 or better still, 2.2 capable, then I will gladly pay $100 more for it.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I wonder why @Kal Rubinson never mentioned it when I was asking for suggestions of such a device, though at the time I was mainly asking about the also non existent 3 channel DAC with volume control, as that seems to be the most economical way to do 2.1 using DLBC.

1. Not 3.1
2. Faulty memory.

 

[peng]

It’s not Dirac but Yamaha provides the proprietary room correction feature for its AVR and 2.1-ch amplifiers. They claims "Environmental factors play an important role in the sonic signature of a room. The YPAO™ automatic calibration technique has been optimized for the R-N800A to deliver the ideal listening environment. YPAO™ features precision EQ, which performs exceptionally high-precision equalization with accuracy of up to 192 kHz / 64-bit audio resolution. YPAO™ R.S.C. (Reflected Sound Control) works in tandem to actively control the important early reflection sounds, automatically adjusting and optimizing how the sound is heard in your room based on the materials of your walls and your speaker placement. Enjoy the profound sound and immersive feeling unique to Hi-Fi audio - right in your own living room."
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/r-n800a/index.html

Thanks, I know about the Yamaha receiver, but iirc, not only it is YPAO, it also need to use the feature with their proprietary music cast? or something like that. I really don't trust the effectiveness of anything other than Audyssey XT32 and Dirac Live. Anthem's disappointing, and I can't afford Trinnov even if it works well.

 

[peng]

1. Not 3.1
2. Faulty memory.

Many thanks for chiming in again, that's a great point, 3.1 might have made the unit more marketable too. So far it seems like the only viable and affordable solution for me is the Motu M4, but still have to sort out, and understand how to do volume control in that scenario. minidsp also has something, obviously, but they don't offer 3 channel or 4 channel dac and they are expensive enough that I don't want to pay for the surplus dac channels that I will never use in that setup. Anyway, I am going off topic now so thanks again, and if I have more questions, I will ask them on the right thread.

 

[raindance]

I don't know if I understand your question correctly, but I don't think the NR1200 subwoofer pre-outs are independent of the front channels. I think they basically output same signal as front channels’ but can set low pass filter (40Hz - 250Hz) & can adjust level (+/- 12dB).

I'll never understand why these manufacturers keep making 2.1 "solutions" without a high pass for the main speakers!! Most subwoofers already have a low pass filter and it isn't needed in the goshdarn f...ing receiver.

 

[GXAlan]

Yeah, thank you very much, that might have been the only such 2 ch device that could do what I want to do, but can you confirm that when you ran DL on it, it could in fact send the calibration sweep tone to the

I just moved it temporarily into my storage unit while I am redoing my audio setup (the Meyer Amie will do that). I bet it would work since this uses the same firmware as their AVRs. I will test it for you when I get a chance, though I may end up selling it, even though I just had it recapped and the VFD replaced for $640.

It uses the same firmware as this:

Arcam AVR850 Home Theater AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the AVR850 Home Theater Audio/Video Receiver (AVR). It was kindly sent to me by a member. The AVR850 was announced in 2016 and was recently discontinued. It costs US $6,000 but I see it discounted online by $1000 or more. The design language is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But just has the 2 channel amps. What is weird is that I didn’t have the HDMI bug that Amir had.

Arcam FMJ SR250 quick HDMI measurements

Arcam FMJ SR250 quick measurements The Arcam SR250 and Onkyo RZ50 are currently the cheapest ways to get 2 channels of Dirac Live - Full Bandwidth 2 channel amplification DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD support 4K HDMI switching HDMI-CEC/ARC The Arcam has already seen a very nice review by @Kal...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[popej]

Regardless, I can understand why it wouldn't sell well, at $3,600. If Denon or Marantz would just take their AVRs such as the Cinema 70, remove all internal amps but two, and implement the digital path in differential mode like they did with the NR1200, sell for $1,000, then I am sure it will sell well. Or they can just do it like the NR1200 and DRA-900H, but modify the HDMI input to become 2.1 or better still, 2.2 capable, then I will gladly pay $100 more for it.

You think like an engineer, not like a salesman. If you cripple AVR and sell it as a stereo device, then you can set a higher price. What would be if you go the other way around?

 

[oal]

I really don't trust the effectiveness of anything other than Audyssey XT32 and Dirac Live.

That is understandable. I too do not want to pay for a technology whose effectiveness is not certain. BTW, here is Denon's page on Dirac Live support:
https://www.denon.com/en-us/inside-denon/brand-stories/dirac-live.html

Not on AVR, but I found John Atkinson's follow-up article on Dynaaudio Focust 10 in November 2023 issue of Stereophile magazine interesting. This active speaker has built-in Dirac Live. Here’s the original article on the speaker:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-focus-10-active-loudspeaker
But Jason Victor Serinus wasn’t able to investigate the built-in Dirac Live feature, so John Atkinson followed up on it. I hope the follow-up article by JA will be available on the web soon.

 

[oal]

I'll never understand why these manufacturers keep making 2.1 "solutions" without a high pass for the main speakers!! Most subwoofers already have a low pass filter and it isn't needed in the goshdarn f...ing receiver.

100% agreed. I too do not understand why. Subwoofer pre-outs without a high pass for the main speakers are useless.

 

[DMan2323]

Am going to add a strictly user experience anecdote after near nightly use for a year+. We have had the 1200 in our bedroom system for 12-13 mos w/ Polk Audio R100s, an old Earthquate MiniMe8 (I believe is the model...won at a CEDIA dealer event many moons ago), a Chromecast Audio for playing out our ROON system, an LG 55", a Roku HD Ultra for "TV"...so basically an evening TV and dedicated music playback system. We got the 1200 on sale this time last year for roughly $410 w/ tax. Not withstanding the above measurements (Personal Note: ASR is the TOP! site for fair and accurate audio eq. IMO), this unit has been impressive for our use with the above set-up. BTW, it's WiFi reception has been great when called upon. Most impressive TO ME is the cost/fun ratio in which for our 2.1 (in essence) / TV HDMIARC set-up and with its Android App functionality, and no operational or technical issues, I highly recommend it for the $$. My two cents after a year. Thanks.

 

[oal]

I didn't know this, but in another discussion thread, I learned that the NR1200 has a speaker impedance setting.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-discrepancies.45641/#post-1627787

The default is 8 Ohms, but I switched it to 4 Ohms speaker impedance setting and measured with a 4 Ohms dummy load. To my surprise, the distortion increased significantly at the 4 Ohms setting of the NR1200. Although the minimum impedance of my speakers is 3.9 Ohms (nominal impedance is 8 Ohms), I chose to use the default 8 ohms setting.

 

[peng]

I didn't know this, but in another discussion thread, I learned that the NR1200 has a speaker impedance setting.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurements-discrepancies.45641/#post-1627787

The default is 8 Ohms, but I switched it to 4 Ohms speaker impedance setting and measured with a 4 Ohms dummy load. To my surprise, the distortion increased significantly at the 4 Ohms setting of the NR1200. Although the minimum impedance of my speakers is 3.9 Ohms (nominal impedance is 8 Ohms), I chose to use the default 8 ohms setting.
View attachment 322113
View attachment 322114

I would think that when the 4 ohm setting is used, the "rail" voltage is much lower. So obviously the unit will clip much sooner. The graph might actually reflect a lower bias voltage, that might (not sure) explain why even at lower output, distortions was higher.

If I were to use the 1200, I would leave it at the 8-ohm setting and set a maximum limit for the volume in such a way that electrically speaking it would be equivalent to using the 4-ohm setting, in terms of mitigating the risk of over driving the unit. The 4-ohm setting is basically a cya thing, not really meaningful but it sits well (at least better) with regulatory authorities so they will always include the cautionary for the use of it, in their owner's manuals, that is unfortunately, but very understandable.

 

[restorer-john]

Nice, I also did not see this post before, flew under the radar. I really appreciate more people with Cosmos ADC doing measurements by themselves.

Totally flew under the radar for me too....

 

[restorer-john]

The 4-ohm setting is basically a cya thing, not really meaningful but it sits well (at least better) with regulatory authorities so they will always include the cautionary for the use of it, in their owner's manuals, that is unfortunately, but very understandable.

The 8 and 4 (and sometimes 6) ohm settings are, as you know, for compliance, but they are also essential for ensuring the output stages do not exceed SOA and self destruct. Amplifiers always had plenty of reserve in SOA in the past, but the lack of OPT devices, the lack of decent heatsinking and placing far too many amplifiers on the one small heatsinks in just bad practice these days.

The derating of output devices as the temperature goes up is regularly ingored by certain online publications who consistently and very poorly 'advise' their readership to always leave the switches in the 8R position. Every product is different.

 

[peng]

The 8 and 4 (and sometimes 6) ohm settings are, as you know, for compliance, but they are also essential for ensuring the output stages do not exceed SOA and self destruct. Amplifiers always had plenty of reserve in SOA in the past, but the lack of OPT devices, the lack of decent heatsinking and placing far too many amplifiers on the one small heatsinks in just bad practice these days.

The derating of output devices as the temperature goes up is regularly ingored by certain online publications who consistently and very poorly 'advise' their readership to always leave the switches in the 8R position. Every product is different.

It does seem that It is for compliance, but the scheme is ill conceived, and/or just window dressing.

I agreed we should not advise people to "always" leave it in the 8R position. Such "advise" need to be given with cautionery notes/caveat.

 

[peng]

You are right, my answer is no. Though NR1200 has volume control for subout, its settings are in the Subwoofer Option menu. Because NR1200 HDMI input supports only 2ch-PCM, there is no way to control subwoofer volume dynamically via HDMI, unfortunately.

I have since read the service manual of the NR1200's un-identical twin, i.e. the Denon DRA-800H so now I know it does have the same volume control IC, using one of the available 8 channels on the IC. It also has it's own DAC, the AK4458, but obviously that has been changed to the PCM1690 DAC (not sure if some has the PCM5102A) IC after the AKM factory fire.

So, we are back to the first square about some of the inconsistencies of the results and your previous suggestion that:

Unlike the output of the preamp, I believe the primary use of the NR1200's pre-outs is for output to the subwoofer; when the DAC output is passed to the amplifier within the NR1200, there will be no unnecessary gain control, so there will be no THD+N degradation. But this is just my wishful thinking on my part.

is probably indeed just "wishful thinking.....". The fact is, based on the NR1200's preamp/dac block diagrams will be the same as that of the DRA-800H, it is a Marantz, costs more so it has got to be at least as good right. In that case, the subwoofer output channel is independent, ie. has it's own volume control and DAC.

Regardless, it did perform well on your test bench, good enough I felt confident to purchase the AVR-X1800H that has very similar preamp/dac section and since it is on sale for about US$500, it is good for my use as a 2Ch stereo device and expect good results. So far, it performs very well, near silent even with volume at maximum and I could not detect any distortions. It probably would measure a few dB better in terms of SINAD anyway, than the NR1200, as it has pre amp mode, though lacking the differential doc implementation that the NR1200/DRA-800H offers.