Marantz M1 Streaming Amplifier Review

[SoySalsaPicante]

May be it’s about the price difference and the performance. Marantz + Dirac costs about 1200 vs 599 os Wiim.
I think Marantz should be better at any aspect. Just my opinion

Your opinion is fine, because you clearly don’t value the difference between DIRAC Live and RoomFit. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[GiBo61]

Your opinion is fine, because you clearly don’t value the difference between DIRAC Live and RoomFit. Different strokes for different folks.

I think the point is that such an advanced and expensive room correction technology (a Dirac Live license that corrects frequencies up to 500Hz sells for $159 and a full-bandwidth license goes for $249) probably deserves hardware with more solid performance than the Marantz M1.

Or

Given that the Marantz M1 performs worse than a similar product that costs $470 less (the Wiim Amp Ultra), a price reduction would be reasonable, given that the additional expense of room correction is also necessary.

Or

Anyone buying the Marantz M1 should be aware that they're paying $470 more than the Wiim Amp Ultra essentially for:
- the ability to use Dirac Live (for an additional $150-$249);
- the ability to use AirPlay;
- performance that, in most cases, is inferior.

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

…Anyone buying the Marantz M1 should be aware that they're paying $470 more than the Wiim Amp Ultra essentially for:
- the ability to use Dirac Live (for an additional $150-$249);
- the ability to use AirPlay;
- performance that, in most cases, is inferior.

This is fine, keeping in mind the masking effects of speaker distortion, room correction, and room interaction. That difference in performance becomes more and more difficult to detect consistently and would be proven so in a blind ABX test against better-measuring equipment set up in the same manner.

Transparent enough is transparent enough.

 

[thunder_]

I think the noise shaping behavior maybe has skewed the M1 measurement (the Wiim also has some rise in noise above 20kHz, but not as much). It looks bad on the wide bandwidth measurements but is the noise shaping actually audible?

Also want to point out that people are positive about the Sabaj even though it measures similar (albeit better in the 1kHz THD+N).

I think there is still lots to like about the M1 (such as the load independence, no/less THD+N rise above 1kHz, no power decrease at low frequency etc). It's still a solid amp. Now whether it's worth the additional cost, that's up to the buyer.

Btw, the M1 has been around for quite a bit longer than the Wiim Ultra. Today it may make more sense to buy a Wiim but the competition was quite different when the M1 was released (so it was not a 'bad' design by Marantz)

 

[caioferrari]

This is fine, keeping in mind the masking effects of speaker distortion, room correction, and room interaction. That difference in performance becomes more and more difficult to detect consistently and would be proven so in a blind ABX test against better-measuring equipment set up in the same manner.

Transparent enough is transparent enough.

Could you explain the “masking effects of distortion ? “

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

Could you explain the “masking effects of distortion ? “

It gets very technical, as highlighted in discussions like this one:

Masking Studies and Relationship to Nonlinear Distortion Audibility (?)

There was a discussion developing today on another thread about what is an acceptable (i.e. inaudible) level of nonlinear distortion from an electronic component. While we have a good sense of what kinds of claim are plainly ridiculous, the discussion reinforced for me just how unclear the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But extremely long story rendered extremely short: once an upstream component produces sound quality sufficiently transparent, downstream infidelity will mask or cover up any further improvements in sound quality from the upstream components. If you look, for example, at the typical amount of distortion produced by speakers, even in an anechoic context, it is many orders of magnitude greater than the distortion from these amplifiers and even more the upstream DACs. In somewhat layman’s terms, “your speakers aren’t going to produce the difference between a SINAD 88 amp and a SINAD 120 amp, so your speakers won’t have any difference to hear.” And again, this is in an anechoic context. What you hear from the main listening position is never purely the sound of your speakers, but rather how the sound produced by them is after being shaped with interaction with your room, furnishings, acoustic treatments, speaker placement/boundary interactions, etc. By the time that sound signal has passed through your speakers and all throughout the room to your ear, it is essentially impossible to hear the difference between (neutral response) amplifiers above a certain threshold of performance, and chances are, that threshold is below a SINAD of 88 (depending on the speakers, the room, etc.). Use of room correction will further mask differences/lower the threshold for audible differences in amplifier performance.

If we were talking about headphone amps, I would venture to say 88 SINAD is not good enough because they are generally not subject to masking effects of room interaction (extremely heavy masking effect—some people even believe you, “hear your room, not your speakers,” though I beg to differ to an extent) or, obviously, to room correction.

 

[caioferrari]

It gets very technical, as highlighted in discussions like this one:

Masking Studies and Relationship to Nonlinear Distortion Audibility (?)

There was a discussion developing today on another thread about what is an acceptable (i.e. inaudible) level of nonlinear distortion from an electronic component. While we have a good sense of what kinds of claim are plainly ridiculous, the discussion reinforced for me just how unclear the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But extremely long story rendered extremely short: once an upstream component produces sound quality sufficiently transparent, downstream infidelity will mask or cover up any further improvements in sound quality from the upstream components. If you look, for example, at the typical amount of distortion produced by speakers, even in an anechoic context, it is many orders of magnitude greater than the distortion from these amplifiers and even more the upstream DACs. In somewhat layman’s terms, “your speakers aren’t going to produce the difference between a SINAD 88 amp and a SINAD 120 amp, so your speakers won’t have any difference to hear.” And again, this is in an anechoic context. What you hear from the main listening position is never purely the sound of your speakers, but rather how the sound produced by them is after being shaped with interaction with your room, furnishings, acoustic treatments, speaker placement/boundary interactions, etc. By the time that sound signal has passed through your speakers and all throughout the room to your ear, it is essentially impossible to hear the difference between (neutral response) amplifiers about a certain threshold of performance, and chances are, that threshold is below a SINAD of 88 (depending on the speakers, the room, etc.). Use of room correction will further mask differences/lower the threshold for audible differences in amplifier performance.

If we were talking about headphone amps, I would venture to say 88 SINAD is not good enough because they are generally not subject to masking effects of room interaction (extremely heavy masking effect—some people even believe you, “hear your room, not your speakers,” though I beg to differ to an extent) or, obviously, to room correction.

Thanks for your answer.
Is there some research about what is the distortion threshold? I got an Acrylic A50+ once and the distortion was pretty audible.

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

Thanks for your answer.
Is there some research about what is the distortion threshold? I got an Acrylic A50+ once and the distortion was pretty audible.

I need to dig into it more. I’m certain the research is out there, but this is just a hobby for me and not my day job, so I haven’t gone that deep into the rabbit hole.

 

[DRC]

Or

Anyone buying the Marantz M1 should be aware that they're paying $470 more than the Wiim Amp Ultra essentially for:
- the ability to use Dirac Live (for an additional $150-$249);
- the ability to use AirPlay;
- performance that, in most cases, is inferior.

And Dolby Digital Plus and HDMI eARC. Performance that is inaudibly inferior.

 

[aptx78]

I love this amp. It drives my KEF LS50 Metas with such ease. With Dirac its even better. In fact I sold a bunch of amps (including Rotel & Wiim) after getting the M1 since this seems like my end game amp. The sound is phenomenal and the "ease of use" is awesome ! HEOS is not that bad (so far) !

 

[Jimster480]

This has almost the same performance as my Heos HS2 Link?

Denon HEOS Link HS2 Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon HEOS Link HS2 DAC and streamer. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $349. The HS2 is chunky and heavy for its size. Its real differentiation from many of its competitors is extensive connectivity: It is very nice to see so...

www.audiosciencereview.com

How come the Heos HS2 isn't in the master list @amirm (I couldn't find a full image link to see if it maybe was much higher up based on the 90 SINAD)?

I would bet if the HEOS Link Amp was tested that it would be identical to this product.... because it looks very much the same.

Should this be HEOS app?

Yes, Heos app.

 

[Miker 1102]

My experience with the HEOS app has been nothing but negative, it's just dreadful.

This appears to be in direct competition with the WiiM Pro Amp, which costs 1/3 as much, performs better, and has better software. Absolutely no-brainer, Marantz needs to improve absolutely everything about this offering for it to make any sense in the market - cut the price in half, improve performance, improve software, before anyone should even cast a glance in its direction.

Heos is one of the laziest apps I have seen. Denon makes excellent avrs. I mean great stuff but HEOS is awful. Maybe thier new parent company will update the system.

 

[Miker 1102]

Jackpot for Samsung finally! Harman, formerly Harman International, was an American group founded in 1953 specializing in audio equipment. Samsung owns JBL, AKG, Bang & Olufsen (car audio division), Bowers & Wilkins, Denon, and Marantz.

The logo says it all

I think Denon and the Marantz avrs are the only thing keeping Marantz alive. Denon probably makes the best value for the dollar avr out there. Thr Marantz product is priced way to high in the us. I dont think its a luxury brand. But with tarrifs ongoing the last generation ones are still.selling for 8 or 900 dollars. I bought an extra one on sale.

 

[Miker 1102]

So long as DIRAC and the Toslink input continue to function, personally, I am fine. That is the key issue for me--and no, WiiM RoomFit is not a suitable substitute (which would be the alternative if I one were to combine a WiiM Ultra streaming DAC with an inexpensive, but well-performing power amp, such as Topping Mini 300, but RoomFit's performance has never come anywhere near DIRAC's in my space/listening room).

The Qobuz Connect function works perfectly on the M1, and is all I need with regards to streaming since I subscribe to Qobuz. I do have a large personal library as well, but I simply have an optical cable connecting to the M1's digital input from my computer running Audirvana by way of a USB-C to Toslink adapter for listening to that, and the computer is not an extra box in the sense that I would have it around regardless whether or not I use it as a streamer, being that it serves other non-music-related roles. Should Qobuz Connect ever cease working, I would just stream Qobuz into it via Audirvana.

I also ran into non-stop issues with the ARC input being completely unreliable in my WiiM Ultra, which is the main reason why I gave up on it (despite having a miniDSP Flex w/DIRAC Live downstream for room correction). The ARC input of the M1 has worked 100% flawlessly for me since the first day of ownership, and the speech enhancement and dynamic compression features have been a Godsend for late-night show watching with my wife after the kids are asleep (and their room is directly above my listening space).

All that said, functioning or not, HEOS is absolute shit. They have 1,001 things to learn from LinkPlay/WiiM and from Eversolo.

From a pure SINAD standpoint, 88 is, "enough," once you consider the masking effects of downstream distortion and room interaction. I'd be lying if I told you I could consistently pick out a cleaner DAC & amp combination against this M1.

Thanks. I forgot this thing had Dirac. I am happy with the ten band on the wiim. But I think this was an interesting product.

 

[Prowler_88]

And Dolby Digital Plus and HDMI eARC. Performance that is inaudibly inferior.

Who cares about eARC and DD+ on a stereo amplifier? Please enlighten me as to what they give you that LPCM via ARC doesn’t.

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

Who cares about eARC and DD+ on a stereo amplifier? Please enlighten me as to what they give you that LPCM via ARC doesn’t.

The ARC functionality is handy for automation reasons.

With regards to Dolby Digital+, I have to agree with you. I tried listening to various Dolby material over ARC in Bitstream mode and then in PCM and PCM sounded better. Why? Because the downmixing doesn’t actually work with Dolby decoding; LFE is not mixed into the stereo channels, leaving the sound thin in body. With PCM, the Apple TV 4K (my source) does a much better job mixing the bass/LFE into the stereo channels, and I get full sound, so I have set my TV(‘s ARC setup) and my Apple TV 4K to forced PCM to ensure full-bodied sound. The M1 can decode Dolby Digital+, but it has poor handling of the LFE information.

 

[ragp13]

@amirm Did you have Power saving set to “Auto-Standby (Default)”, or to “Quick start”?

There is a bug/issue with the amp causing hissing/static noise which seems to be triggered by the Default auto-standy power saving mode.

Marantz MODEL M1 Wireless Streaming Amplifier

I just purchased some KEF Q150 Bookshelf Speakers and some Blue Jeans cables to give the M1 another go. Unfortunately, it is doing the exact same thing it and the previous M1 did with my Dev Techs. So, I guess I’ll be returning this unit as well.

www.audiosciencereview.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/s/PureDmKdPU

Switching to Quick Start and rebooting fixes this (as I confirmed myself). Latest Firmware doesn’t fix this. Marantz is aware of it but stated they aren’t sure they can fix the underlying with a software update (Source: Marantz tech I spoke to).

I can imagine this issue might have affected your measurements.

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

@amirm Did you have Power saving set to “Auto-Standby (Default)”, or to “Quick start”?

There is a bug/issue with the amp causing hissing/static noise which seems to be triggered by the Default auto-standy power saving mode.

Marantz MODEL M1 Wireless Streaming Amplifier

I just purchased some KEF Q150 Bookshelf Speakers and some Blue Jeans cables to give the M1 another go. Unfortunately, it is doing the exact same thing it and the previous M1 did with my Dev Techs. So, I guess I’ll be returning this unit as well.

www.audiosciencereview.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/hometheater/s/PureDmKdPU

Switching to Quick Start and rebooting fixes this (as I confirmed myself). Latest Firmware doesn’t fix this. Marantz is aware of it but stated they aren’t sure they can fix the underlying with a software update (Source: Marantz tech I spoke to).

I can imagine this issue might have affected your measurements.

I’m not convinced that bug is affecting his results. That hiss is so bad that it would push SINAD down to oblivion; meanwhile, it’s still getting about 88 SINAD.

 

[ragp13]

I’m not convinced that bug is affecting his results. That hiss is so bad that it would push SINAD down to oblivion; meanwhile, it’s still getting about 88 SINAD.

I didn’t think the hiss was very bad. Initially I didn’t notice it. So it might very well differ depending on what is hooked up.

 

[SuicideSquid]

The ARC functionality is handy for automation reasons.

Agreed, but a couple people have made a big deal out of the fact that the Marantz supports eARC while the WiiM streaming amps only support standard ARC. But AFAIK the additional features of eARC only apply to surround/spatial sound and do not affect stereo playback.