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Marantz HD-AMP1 DAC and Integrated Amplifier

Dogen

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#42
The 1060 is a lovely little amplifier. Capacitor coupled. Conservatively specified and arguably one of the prettiest vintage designs due to its perfect symmetrical front panel layout.

It does have a somewhat 'tailored' response and that is why it has a reputation for 'sweetness' and 'warmth' along with average damping at low frequencies being quite suited IMO to the speakers of the 70s.

This gives you an idea of the flatness or lack thereof of the 1060. This is the FR plot at [email protected] for a fully restored kept in box unit, I did a few years ago (2016). It was one my father has owned since new and spent around 40 years in its box. It needed considerable work due to leaked capacitors and got a complete rebuild. I remember singing into microphones plugged into this actual 1060 in 1973 or '74 and him recording us on an open reel deck.

(flat, low and high filters)

View attachment 20598

FR [email protected] and [email protected]:

View attachment 20599

Power output is exactly as was tested by major magazines back in the day when it received 'rave' reviews (38W/Ch). The 1060 may have been quite good at the time, but it was quickly eclipsed. It was rated at 30 watts per channel. This one achieved somewhat more.

View attachment 20600
Note, this was a simple onset of clipping test after preconditioning for 1 hour @1/3 power (10W) @ 8ohms. Notice the case temperature at 49 degrees Celscius (120F).
Great info, thanks! For many years I had the little brother, was it the 1030? I loved that amp and it gave me literally decades of enjoyment. Still working in my brother-in-law’s home.
 
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amirm

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Thread Starter #43
I suspect this unit converts the analog input to digital for signal processing and then DAC to AMP, not sure how that would impact your testing.
I did not see a sign of this in the frequency response measurement.
 

D700

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#44
I did not see a sign of this in the frequency response measurement.
From what I read, the feature is called MMDF or Marantz Musical Digital Filtering, applies to both analog and PCM inputs. Only way I think that would work is if the analog is converted to digital first but I’m not an electrical engineer. I know there are other units out there with the ESS Sabre’s that do this.
 

exaudio

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#45
Sad to see the Marantz's SINAD of 85dB put it in the bottom quarter of DACs--Yggdrasil territory:eek:. Although the Marantz's measurement was DAC+headphone amp where the Yggdrasil, at 86dB, was DAC alone. But I suppose even if one could isolate the Marantz's DAC from the headphone amp it wouldn't improve the SINAD enough to bump it into the third tier.

Calculating the effective number of bits where ENOB = (SINAD-1.76dB)/6.02 ≈ 14 bits

Here's @amirm's SINAD/THD+N measurements overlaid with the audibility threshold data compiled by @flipflop which I found very useful.

marantz-hd-amp1-thd+n.png
 

anmpr1

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#48
The history cannot forget the Marantz 1060, whilst at the same time it can simply forget / ignore the Marantz HD-AMP1 ... :facepalm:
Consider what you got for your small dollars back in the day: tone controls (with a mid level); L+R mono switch; left channel output; right channel output; low filter (RIAA subsonic); high filter (this was mainly for tape and possibly FM--not really as important with the introduction of Dolby and more sensitive tuners; 6 inputs; mic/line front panel. Today, you are lucky to get a balance control on an integrated amp. The reason you got so much was the economy of scale. Hi Fi was important in the '70s. Everyone had records and a tape machine, and everyone needed this sort of thing. Companies made tens of thousands. Now, it's all been replaced by the TV and soundbar, and streaming, for most folks. Just a few hobbyists are interested in 2 channel.

I owned a 1060, along with an AR manual turntable and Shure M75 cart. Audioanalyst speakers, which were horrible, but they were cheap. Replaced the gear with a Pioneer SA-9500 and L100s. Big step up. Still have the JBLs. In the '50s and '60s (Saul) Marantz gear was super expense. Competed with Mac. Then Superscope took over, and the 'super' mostly went out of the equation in their effort to mass market. Still decent value. This piece was from the Superscope era, if I'm not mistaken. At some point Marantz manufacturing migrated to Japan. Now, real Japanese gear is too expensive for the average cat (re: Accuphase/Lux).
 

graz_lag

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#49
... This piece was from the Superscope era, if I'm not mistaken. At some point Marantz manufacturing migrated to Japan. Now, real Japanese gear is too expensive for the average cat (re: Accuphase/Lux).
You're right, the 1060 was manufactured from 1970 thru 1976, I think, so under the Superscope's management, which was good in fact, as it brought the Marantz brand to the very top of quality audio gears within the Hi-Fi niches, as you said.
It was Philips that screwed up the things a bit, focusing too much the Marantz brand on the CD players, which became the reference at some point, but at the price that the it lost its grip on the rest of the Hi-Fi gears.
Within the D&M holding things were not going too bad in terms of R&D until some years ago, but it looks they are loosing a lot lately so over the past 6-8 years ...
One day my father brought home the 1060, he paid for $125 for it as second-hand in 1974, replaced with the B version some years later to get the fancy control sliders.
Currently, in France you can easily pay 300-400 EUR for a nice unit, clean and entirely revised.
Even at the said price, it brings a very nice value for money compared to many of today' Schiits we see around, IMHO.

Thank you for this exchange, it brings me unforgettable moments ... :)
 
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amirm

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Thread Starter #50
@amirm , based on the less-than-stellar performance I'm slightly afraid to ask, but any chance you could measure headphone section's output impedance?
Be afraid, be very afraid!!!

1548098695709.png


Yes, 95 ohm output impedance!
 

PierreV

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#52
Be afraid, be very afraid!!!
Yes, 95 ohm output impedance!
In which mode Low/Mid/High or is it independent? (I am not a headphone guy, don't think I ever used a pair on it)
 
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amirm

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Thread Starter #53
In which mode Low/Mid/High or is it independent? (I am not a headphone guy, don't think I ever used a pair on it)
I doubt very much there is a difference. There is likely a resistor in-line with the headphone output and would be independent of what is upstream in the chain.
 

D700

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#54
To be clear, amplifier tests were done with the analog input. Since the DAC output goes into power amp, the amp will be the limiting factor.

But yes, I did not check the settings.
Ah Amirm, how can we rely on your findings then?

Respectfully...you're telling a forum member to run away based on the headphone output, yet you didn't do a cursory check to see what settings, if any, were enabled that might impact your results? Specifcally: Source direct, filter setting, headphone gain L, M, H. All 3 of these would impact the output. That isn't good testing methodology; establishing a baseline is testing 101.

If you still have the unit, could you retest or at least confirm back to all of us what each setting was at time of the test?
 
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amirm

amirm

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Thread Starter #55
I have packed the unit to send it back. I make judgement calls at times to shortcut measurements/effort when it is very obvious where the product stands. I have a boatload of other gear to measure and I give priority to that. Now, if the owner asks for more, I can do more but this unit was sent to me last year and I like to send it back and move on. You are welcome to discount my assessment and hang your hat on what you state.
 

graz_lag

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#56
Ah Amirm, how can we rely on your findings then?

Respectfully...you're telling a forum member to run away based on the headphone output, yet you didn't do a cursory check to see what settings, if any, were enabled that might impact your results? Specifcally: Source direct, filter setting, headphone gain L, M, H. All 3 of these would impact the output. That isn't good testing methodology; establishing a baseline is testing 101.

If you still have the unit, could you retest or at least confirm back to all of us what each setting was at time of the test?
This HD-AMP1 is simply broken by design, you have to accept that looking forward ...
 

D700

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#57
I have packed the unit to send it back. I make judgement calls at times to shortcut measurements/effort when it is very obvious where the product stands. I have a boatload of other gear to measure and I give priority to that. Now, if the owner asks for more, I can do more but this unit was sent to me last year and I like to send it back and move on. You are welcome to discount my assessment and hang your hat on what you state.
Ok, that's disappointing. I do appreciate your directness and honesty.

I will just state for anyone passing by that the results of this test can't be confirmed without understanding what, if any, impact the Marantz tone controls, MMDF filters or Headphone gain settings had on the results.
 

D700

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#58
This HD-AMP1 is simply broken by design, you have to accept that looking forward ...
Well the website name is "audiosciencereview" not "audioopinionsandreviews" so I'd hoped to see basic scientific method in play, rather than subjective assessments. I can go watch well crafted John Darko videos if I want that.
 
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#59
I was eyeing the Marantz HD-DAC1 because of the "Marantz" name. Seeing this disappointing measurement of the HD-AMP1, i doubt the the HD-DAC1 will perform any better. Another DAC / Amp crossed-out from my wish list, thanks to Amirm. Waiting for the Massdrop THX AAA 789 to become available again.
 

PierreV

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#60
This HD-AMP1 is simply broken by design, you have to accept that looking forward ...
AFAIC, I am not really traumatized since I own

- a FX-802D which defines me as a non sustainable cheap "Chinese trash" lover.
- an HD-AMP1 which defines me as a 21st century Marantz marketing victim.
- a Linn Akurate ensemble which defines me as the type of person "who buys a Rolls Royce for reasons everybody understands"
- half a dozen of vintage amplifiers which define me as a person who doesn't know what he is missing in terms of features.
- a Khadas Tone Board which defines me as a clever bargain hunter.

and a bunch of other stuff that don't define me... yet.

On the plus side, I enjoy them all for different reasons in different configurations.

No reason to get angry, disappointed or defensive IMHO.
 

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