Marantz "Cinema Series" "2022-2023" AV Launch Thread

[CC122]

SINAD 106 for the balanced pre-outs of the AV 10 is not bad, finally some improvement! Now that price though...

Results are from a SU presentation in the past fortnight.

And otherwise, yes - a tricky one. Good results, price is high.

I do think we need to appreciate the other bling that comes with a device like this: namely, video processing and audio codecs, then room processing as well - Audessy possibly has a greater impact on SINAD than the dB improvements listed. This isn’t a stand alone DAC - it’s a whole package.

IF - and a big if - it delivers on the DIRAC promise, it’s half the price of the nearest comparably spec’d competitor (Trinnov) and then, if actually delivers bug free it beats JBL. Time will tell!

 

[Mark K]

Currently I am with my years old AV8802a, and drooling over those discounted AV 8805, SR8015 and Demon AVC A110
As an old fashioned user, I am still running 5.1...So any newer sound formats mean nothing to me.

 

[ArturoKiwi]

At the moment in some online shop you could find the Cinema 40 and the SR8015 at the same price (in Europe).
It's a hard choice to do.
Is there any serious review of the Cinema 40 or 50?

 

[slacki]

i am playing with the idea to buy a ddrc-24 when i get the two new subs (then in total i have 3). i am just wondering if the marantz cinema line produces the same output on all 4 channels, because if so, guess the best would then be to use first audyssey, then connect the ddrc and do the last fine-tuning with dirac.
anyone an idea if thats reasonable? i never had such stuff, only audyssey@avr - but a bit familiar with REW now

 

[ArturoKiwi]

On Marantz website it is written that Cinema 40 and Cinema 50 has "Subwoofer Out 4 (independent)"
Also in Audioholics page:"The big news for the top two models is the addition of 4 independent subs."

Marantz New Cinema Series 8K AV Receivers, Dirac Live & 4 Subs!

Marantz new Cinema lineup of 8K AV Receivers and separates for 2022! The Cinema 40, 50, 60, and 70s receivers feature 8K video and the top 3 models are upgradable to Dirac Live with 4 sub outs!

www.audioholics.com

 

[slacki]

On Marantz website it is written

damn, next time i'll read their homepage thanks!
in that case guess it would be even bad to buy the ddrc. i'll wait for dirac in a year when its supported in the marantz

 

[ubik3000]

I guess 7.2 is configurable as 5.2.2.

It is, works correctly.

 

[ubik3000]

Hello,

I recently bought a Marantz Cinema 60, still testing it. On two channels, driving Canton GLE496, in Pure Direct mode and via Airplay, sounds very close and sometime surpasses an AudioLab 8300A + Argon Audio SOLO (Airplay). Of course, no measurements, subjective testing. Dynamics and microdynamics (reverbs, ambients) seem better for Cinema 60. Bass seems more profound and more rhythmic for Cinema 60 and midrange and trebles are on par with Audiolab 8300A. Audiolab 8300A seems to have less distorsion overall. Also Audiolab 8300A seems to be more expressive at (very) low volume (think -40 dB... -44dB volume). Distortion figure of 0.08% at 100W over the entire audio spectrum seem like a marketing lie for Cinema 60. I would like very much to be contradicted by independent measurements.
On this forum, someone complained that a X3700H does not surpass in audio performance an Audiolab 8300A. He had both and was using the Audiolab 8300A for music listening.
On surround front, I am amazed by how better it sounds for effects and dialogues than my (very old, but perfectly functional) Sony STR-DG 910. Most probably must the combination of DD+ (I don't have Dolby TruHD sources...) and better amps and audio processing. For Atmos, I have a (not at all calibrated, not even via Audissey) 4.2.0 (top middle) setup. Atmos sounds good, there is the scene in Netflix's Interceptor movie (interceptor missiles launch and interception) that sounds way better in Atmos versus DD 5.1. My setup is far from optimal when it comes to speaker placement. It is not awful, but not great...

 

[ubik3000]

Hello, does anyone knows the amp damping factor of the Marantz Cinema line (specifically Cinema 60, if possible)? Marantz does not seem to publish it, but for power amps or integrated amps it is given.

 

[minus3dB]

Thank you for posting the results, are you allowed to disclose the source of the information? Not big deal, just being curious. Previous D+M internal measurements Amir looked different, more similar to the formats Amir used.

If those flag ship Marantz AV devices now have measurements so similar to Denon's, I have to say there's no more basis of the claimed "Marantz sound", not for analog inputs and no DSPs anyway.

Not sure if this link was posted elsewhere...

AV 10, AMP 10 1 hour Technical Preso by Marantz Product Engineer

I have to hand it to SU/Marantz on a couple of levels. One, this level of design disclosure to the general public is outstanding. This is about as deep a technical dive as I've seen an OEM give on a new product in this space. Secondly, they clearly are responding to the segment of customers who want the best performance regardless of audibility benefits.

There were several interesting points made that I won't elaborate on a the 1 hour preso is well worth watching. He did have a photo of the DAC board showing that the chip is the ESS ES9018K2M x 10. Spec-wise it appears to be the low power 2 channel version of the ES9028 or thereabouts...certainly the DNR and SNR good enough to not be the performance bottleneck in the D/A --> XLR chain. It seems they paid a lot of attention to noise and EMC at the board and chassis level. There is a slide on the board layout/design principles (4 layer) for the unit.

Not sure what else anyone bowing to the SINAD gods could ask for given this is processing 19 channels and the output drive capability. It appears they targeted the AVM 90 as the peer product in the space to go after. I haven't done a detailed feature set-feature set comparison but the one that jumps out is RC - Audyssey + DL (and eventually DLBC) versus ARC Genesis. That plus Anthem appears to have placed minimal emphasis on native streaming capabilities other than AirPlay2 and Chromecast (which the AV 10 doesn't have, but I'm assuming one could plug a Googlecast hockey puck in for $40 and have the same capability?). Also I thought I read that the AVM 90 doesn't support DSD or UNPnP.

I suppose you could also say this AVP could cause some issues for the $11k Audio Control X9 (8k version) and the lesser expensive SDP-58, although the 58 will beat it's MSRP by around $1k once you ad Dirac and DLBC to the AV 10.

 

[da Choge]

AV 10, AMP 10 1 hour Technical Preso by Marantz Product Engineer

I have to hand it to SU/Marantz on a couple of levels. One, this level of design disclosure to the general public is outstanding. This is about as deep a technical dive as I've seen an OEM give on a new product in this space. Secondly, they clearly are responding to the segment of customers who want the best performance regardless of audibility benefits.

Pretty impressive. The specs the AV 10 have turned out (according to Marantz's measurements) are a definite improvement over their past units. Of course we should expect them to be for what they are asking ($$$) for the unit. But, it looks like someone is paying attention to ASR and Amir's efforts!

 

[minus3dB]

I think someone is paying attention to ASR and Amir's efforts!

There's no question about that. Buried in the owner's manual (pg. 187) is a setting for the anti-aliasing filter where the default position is for "the Marantz Sound" or a "Bench Test" setting for those trying to achieve impressive test results. LMAO!

 

[peng]

There's no question about that. Buried in the owner's manual (pg. 187) is a setting for the anti-aliasing filter where the default position is for "the Marantz Sound" or a "Bench Test" setting for those trying to achieve impressive test results. LMAO!

View attachment 257282

That's excellent news and welcomed move on Marantz' part! The "Marantz sound" claim has been spreading all over the internet and print magazines well before them start using the non default filters. For example, my AV8801 did not have the significant roll off per soundandvision.com's frequency response test:

You don't see the >2 dB drop by the time it hit 20 kHz

They seem to have started using that slow roll off filter since the AV8802:

Now you do see the much more significant from about 5 kHz, similar to what Amir found on the AV8805 and AV7705.

 

[minus3dB]

That's excellent news and welcomed move on Marantz' part!

Such a simple thing to do, too. Listening to the voice of the customer....I doubt 90% would be able to tell the difference between the two filters, but at least those who think they would can try now. Looking more & more like I'll drop an order for one of these as soon as dealers are taking them. In terms of feature set there are only 2 things it doesn't check for me but both can be worked around -- no Chromecast and no USB-B. I don't know where the HEOS app stacks up against things like Music Life (Harman) and others but most of that can be handled by AppleTV 4k Gen3 and/or streaming from desktop streaming apps running on Mac Mini.

 

[peng]

Such a simple thing to do, too. Listening to the voice of the customer....I doubt 90% would be able to tell the difference between the two filters, but at least those who think they would can try now. Looking more & more like I'll drop an order for one of these as soon as dealers are taking them. In terms of feature set there are only 2 things it doesn't check for me but both can be worked around -- no Chromecast and no USB-B. I don't know where the HEOS app stacks up against things like Music Life (Harman) and others but most of that can be handled by AppleTV 4k Gen3 and/or streaming from desktop streaming apps running on Mac Mini.

I am curious to know what you can do with Chromecast that makes you want it with the AVP/AVR. I have it and don't even use it, but certainly will, if I know what it is good for. HEOS seems good but I actually prefer the older simple DLNA feature that allowed me to stream from my PC server anyway, but that's just the way I used it, others obviously would prefer HEOS for their usage.

 

[bo_knows]

Currently I am with my years old AV8802a, and drooling over those discounted AV 8805, SR8015 and Demon AVC A110
As an old fashioned user, I am still running 5.1...So any newer sound formats mean nothing to me.

Denon AVR A110, I would love to have that unit...

 

[minus3dB]

I am curious to know what you can do with Chromecast that makes you want it with the AVP/AVR. I have it and don't even use it, but certainly will, if I know what it is good for. HEOS seems good but I actually prefer the older simple DLNA feature that allowed me to stream from my PC server anyway, but that's just the way I used it, others obviously would prefer HEOS for their usage.

I use it to stream music from my laptop Qobuz app to TV (Chromecast Built-In) to AVR via ARC. I like the full screen "playing now" UI it casts to my 75" display while playing the music. If not using Qobuz I stream Apple Music or Amazon HD from the Apple TV4k 3rd Gen. The ATV does not support the Qobuz app.

I have limited experience with HEOS (my AVR is a 4311 which is pre-HEOS) but have not heard great things about it.

 

[peng]

I use it to stream music from my laptop Qobuz app to TV (Chromecast Built-In) to AVR via ARC. I like the full screen "playing now" UI it casts to my 75" display while playing the music. If not using Qobuz I stream Apple Music or Amazon HD from the Apple TV4k 3rd Gen. The ATV does not support the Qobuz app.

I have limited experience with HEOS (my AVR is a 4311 which is pre-HEOS) but have not heard great things about it.

View attachment 257490

Okay thanks, I normally used Amazon Fire stick 4K, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to have other options.

 

[GXAlan]

I have limited experience with HEOS (my AVR is a 4311 which is pre-HEOS) but have not heard great things about it.

HEOS is lousy for browsing and exploration. If you have defined playlists or albums that you want, Heos works well for services like Amazon Music HD or for local libraries, including DSD.

I don’t recall if HEOS can do multichannel DSD.

What is nice is that it is reliable (iOS/android) and auto switches native sample rates. As far as I know, TV based apps and the NVIDIA Shield will sample rate convert.

If you want “UltraHD” (24/44 or higher) from Amazon Music HD, you need to use the HEOS app as opposed to the Amazon Music app.

 

[ban25]

I use it to stream music from my laptop Qobuz app to TV (Chromecast Built-In) to AVR via ARC. I like the full screen "playing now" UI it casts to my 75" display while playing the music. If not using Qobuz I stream Apple Music or Amazon HD from the Apple TV4k 3rd Gen. The ATV does not support the Qobuz app.

I have limited experience with HEOS (my AVR is a 4311 which is pre-HEOS) but have not heard great things about it.

View attachment 257490

HEOS is Hot Garbage, unfortunately. That said I work around this through a combination of using the TIDAL app on my NVIDIA Shield when I want album art displayed, or using a Bluesound NODE connected via SPDIF otherwise. You can also stream using AirPlay 2 and something like Roon, but that will only be good for 16/48 stereo.