I like both of them but I really wanted 2.2 so I sold my X1800H for that reason after happily using it for about 6 months. It’s SQ was as good as my other systems that cost much more. Based on available info, I am sure the C70 will sound the same if used under the same condition, but it also only has 2.1. If 2.1 is all you need, you will be happy with either, especially if you use the likes of the very affordable buckeye amp such as the NC252MP (I used it with the NC502MP).
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Marantz Cinema 70s AVR Review
- Thread starter amirm
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I like both of them but I really wanted 2.2 so I sold my X1800H for that reason after happily using it for about 6 months. It’s SQ was as good as my other systems that cost much more. Based on available info, I am sure the C70 will sound the same if used under the same condition, but it also only has 2.1. If 2.1 is all you need, you will be happy with either, especially if you use the likes of the very affordable buckeye amp such as the NC252MP (I used it with the NC502MP).
Dreamslayer
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when you say 2.1, you mean one subwoofer?
I currently have a pair of LS50 Metas, an SVS 3000 Micro and I'm using a Wimm Amp Ultra.
What I I'm thinking of is using 7 (probably wall mounted) surround speakers - they don't have to be equal to my LS50s, just decent and getting a speaker switch.
When I run Stereo/2.1 - the speaker switch activates the LS50s. When I run 7.1, the speaker switch activates the wall mounted LR speakers that match the rest of the surround speakers. An external amp for everything would be too much as the surround sound will be more casual.
I plan to use the Zone 2 preouts to run my headphone amp.
My main input will be eARC from my OLED monitor (which has smart TV features) - I thought about Atmos but really, just regular 7.1 is a lot for a small room...
It means it has only one discrete subwoofer output. They, such as the C70 has 2 subwoofer outputs but both RCA outputs are derived from the same 1 output, functioning same as using a splitter externally. That is okay if you ever use room correction/equalization but if you do, then you would want two discrete/independent outputs.
An external amp rated 200-300 W 4 ohms is probably good for the LS50s even for a 10X10, though likely make no difference unless you listen on the loud side. Regardless, for power amp output, more is better (to a point, as always..) whether you need it or not. As you know, the sensitivity of the LS50s are quite low, only 85 dB/2.83V/m. Their impedance/phase angle curves would indicate its a good idea to drive them with power amps designed for high (relatively speaking) current output.
ban25
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It's worth remembering that the LS50s cannot play all that loud without significant distortion, especially in bass frequencies. From Amir's review:
Dreamslayer
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Mine have a HPF at 70-80hz and I don't play them that loud. They're nearfield in basically a 3ft triangle.
I've thought about replacing them - not for any fault but for more flexibility and sensitivity. I'm trying to build a system that is primarily 2.1, can easily output to my headphone amp and can also light up full surround and sound decent in a small office - so just the best of all worlds...
I like the Martin Logans quite a bit and a few others, but the KEFs are so so nice in nearfield...
Most likely will keep the Kefs and get some cheaper surround speakers and use a speaker switch to change my L/Rs when I go from 2.1 to 7.1
Not sure if that will get old after a while...
Yes, I said that a few times myself, but people persist in "bragging" about how difficult they are to drive, so I think it is also worth remembering that for those who are keen on using their system without worrying about any degradation on paper under all conditions such as when the so called EPDR (I don't like that term at all as it is misleading but it can be useful in a way) that Stereophile like to emphasize:
In such cases, their owners might just felt better to give their LS 50 Meta unrestricted current regardless of whether they could hear a difference.
And, if they feel better/confidence then they might just hear/imagine the expected better sound quality.
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I was going to sell my LS50 (non Meta) but while waiting for a buyer, I started using them for my desktop system previously using some little satellite Altec Lansing, and then I realized they sounded so good in such very near field applications so I decided to keep them. With Dirac Live in use, I didn't even need the Altec Lansing subwoofer at all. Have been using them this way for a few years now and really enjoy the sound, can't imagine a desktop system can sound this good. In such application, no powerful amp is needed, I used an NAD integrated before, but replaced it with a tiny Fosi, $89 amp and the NAD is just sitting there. I prefer the Fosi amp because of its size.
ban25
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I'm doing the same. They're legitimately great on a desktop in near-field application. I drive them with a Bluesound Powernode via optical SPDIF from my PC, with Dirac Live on the PC. Sitting maybe 1.5' from the speakers, I feel no need for a subwoofer. I wouldn't mind downsizing a bit on the amplifier, but I had this one sitting collecting dust.
Good to know others are doing the same, I sit 2 to 2.5 feet from the speakers, so there is no spl loss from distance.
When it was in the living room, seating 10-11 ft, it was acceptable when I used the much bigger amps, the little Fosi would struggle there for sure.
A SINAD of around 96 @ 1.5V pre output, linear fr response, I would say it is good. Very good.Do I understand correctly that if I connect this receiver only via HDMI and use external power amplifiers, it is basically one of the better receivers?
Do I understand correctly that if I connect this receiver only via HDMI and use external power amplifiers, it is basically one of the better receivers?
Yes, if you only need one subwoofer and use external amp, this thing could beat the Cinema 40 a little, because there is no HDAM that would add distortion/noise, though the 40 measured very well with Toslink input used (for some unknown reasons).
for around 900$ i can buy:
- new marantz cinema 70s
- used marantz cinema 60
- used denon AVC-X3700H (with possible 4k@120Hz issue, i'd need to test that somehow) plus it's ugly
I'd like to use them with HDMI in only, with fosi V3 monos for the fronts L and R.
Since I only have external amplifiers for the left and right channels, I understand that the center and rear channels will sound bad.
I'd also need to invest in power amplifiers for the remaining channels, which would double the investment.
Maybe it's worth paying extra for the Marantz Cinema 60 in this situation? Is there any data confirming its better quality than the 70s?
I know that if I got the Denon, I'd have the sound quality sorted, but it's an ugly black box. Besides, I'd have to check if it has any HDMI connection issues, which would require some complicated extra work.
Any ideas?
- new marantz cinema 70s
- used marantz cinema 60
- used denon AVC-X3700H (with possible 4k@120Hz issue, i'd need to test that somehow) plus it's ugly
I'd like to use them with HDMI in only, with fosi V3 monos for the fronts L and R.
Since I only have external amplifiers for the left and right channels, I understand that the center and rear channels will sound bad.
I'd also need to invest in power amplifiers for the remaining channels, which would double the investment.
Maybe it's worth paying extra for the Marantz Cinema 60 in this situation? Is there any data confirming its better quality than the 70s?
I know that if I got the Denon, I'd have the sound quality sorted, but it's an ugly black box. Besides, I'd have to check if it has any HDMI connection issues, which would require some complicated extra work.
Any ideas?
for around 900$ i can buy:
- new marantz cinema 70s
- used marantz cinema 60
- used denon AVC-X3700H (with possible 4k@120Hz issue, i'd need to test that somehow) plus it's ugly
I'd like to use them with HDMI in only, with fosi V3 monos for the fronts L and R.
Since I only have external amplifiers for the left and right channels, I understand that the center and rear channels will sound bad.
I'd also need to invest in power amplifiers for the remaining channels, which would double the investment.
Maybe it's worth paying extra for the Marantz Cinema 60 in this situation? Is there any data confirming its better quality than the 70s?
I know that if I got the Denon, I'd have the sound quality sorted, but it's an ugly black box. Besides, I'd have to check if it has any HDMI connection issues, which would require some complicated extra work.
Any ideas?
The C60 is a poor value. Used 3700 may be risky unless you know the owner and know he is a responsible user.
If you can wait, the x3800h should go on sale for around $1000 before year end. based on history, That would be a great value that is also quite future proof.
Yeah, but the Denon AVR-X3800H is ~8 dB worse than C70s...
It went on promotion on amazon right now for 1080$.
C70s is cheaper witch it's 860$, and has batter quality with extrenal amps...
200$ for 3 channel amp would match the denon price but get ~8dB of sound quality...
Thou setup wold be more complicated...
And i don't know any 3.0 amps for less than 1000$... do you know some?
It went on promotion on amazon right now for 1080$.
C70s is cheaper witch it's 860$, and has batter quality with extrenal amps...
200$ for 3 channel amp would match the denon price but get ~8dB of sound quality...
Thou setup wold be more complicated...
And i don't know any 3.0 amps for less than 1000$... do you know some?
Yeah, but the Denon AVR-X3800H is ~8 dB worse than C70s...
It went on promotion on amazon right now for 1080$.
C70s is cheaper witch it's 860$, and has batter quality with extrenal amps...
200$ for 3 channel amp would match the denon price but get ~8dB of sound quality...
Thou setup wold be more complicated...
And i don't know any 3.0 amps for less than 1000$... do you know some?
I think that was a bad specimen (it is just my feeling, of course it is speculatory on my part), not representative of the product. If you look at the design and circuitry, and historic track record, there is no reason for the 3800 to measure 6 dB worse. They should all be within +\- 2dB. Regardless, it still measured much better than the Marantz AV7705 right?
Just wishful thinking, maybe you can buy it, drop off at ASR and beg Amir to measure it, then decide to keep or return depending on the test results.
I am bias, and I really think the 3800 is one of those unbeatable deal, though, again, I have seen all the available information on the parts used, signal path block diagrams, schematics of the predecessors such as the X3700H, X4700H, X6700H, SR6014, AV7705, AV8805, and there really are nothing to indicate they would measure too differently, same OPAs, DAC, ADC, voume control ICs etc. Amp section are virtually identical too, just minor differences (if any) between the power amp schematics. Of course, Marantz higher models have HDAMs which I don't think is worth anyway.
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It's going to be much harder for the 3800 to get back to that $1k price point. The tariffs forced Denon to increase the MSRP in the US by $100 so now it's $1799 USD!
On the PAC side, they recently made their RZ30 and RZ70 more affordable by DROPPING the MSRP!
Being in Canada, it was easy for me to forget the Tariff effect, so you are right, might have to add 25% on top for the Tariff if the distributor would pass it onto the consumer.
