Marantz Cinema 70s as a pre-pro

[mcdn]

I bought one of these (https://www.marantz.com/en-us/product/av-receivers/cinema70s) to use as a pre-pro, as it has a full set of pre-outs. I might use some of the amp channels if I add surrounds to my system later. All I need is reliable HDMI and audio switching for an Xbox, Apple TV, Nintendo Switch and Sonos Port. The previous solution had an HDMI switcher and lots of complaints from the kids when things didn't work.

So does it do the job? Yes!

I can set all the channels to pre-out only, there is a reassuring click of relays, and the amps don't seem to turn on based on a simple "hand on top cover" test after an hour of watching content.

Sorry for lack of measurements, it's doing duty in the family room.

Subjectively, it sounds fine.

 

[LxFx]

Interesting! What are you using as an amp then? Newbie here so not realy sure how to interpret the equipment in your signature, I assume the DIY 3eAudio 8 channel amp?

 

[mcdn]

Good question @LxFx ! The Marantz is set up with all speakers as "none" except the Front L/R which are set as "large". All outputs are set as "pre-only", which seems to do the intended job of turning off power to the amps.

The pre-out L/R then go to the MiniDSP 4x10HD, which is the active crossover for the LXStudio (LXmini + LXSub4) speakers. 4 outputs per channel then go to the power amp - one for each of the bass drivers, one for the mid bass, and one for the "full range" mid/tweeter.

I appreciate this is a terrible waste of what the Marantz can do, but it really has simplified the usability of the whole system, and with three teenagers in the house that counts for a lot! The Apple TV now natively controls the amp volume, the Sony TV screen turns on and off as needed, etc. With a few more tweaks I may be able to retire my Logitech Harmony Hub remote....

(Edit, power amp build thread here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-power-amp-with-microprocessor-control.25851/)

 

[LxFx]

Ah, those are active speakers, I see. I'm interested in separating pre-amp from amp using the cinema 70 as well, but I own a passive Monitor Audio Apex set of speakers to drive. So I'm just getting into finding good value for money multichannel amplifiers and if that separation is even worth it compared to a cinema 60 or 50.

 

[spartoi]

Ah, those are active speakers, I see. I'm interested in separating pre-amp from amp using the cinema 70 as well, but I own a passive Monitor Audio Apex set of speakers to drive. So I'm just getting into finding good value for money multichannel amplifiers and if that separation is even worth it compared to a cinema 60 or 50.

Whether it's worth it or not would depend on how many speakers your driving as the Cinema 70s gives 50W for 2-channels which isn't much to start with and only diminishes as more channels are added. However, looking at just amp specs and cost, the cinema 70s + separate amp would be a much better value than just a cinema 60 or 50 considering the cinema 70s is $500-$1300 cheaper.

 

[mcdn]

Yeah the Cinema 70s is low powered, but if you power your fronts separately it’s not going to matter unless you have a very large room. A very good stereo power amp is 10% of the cost of the receiver. It’ll be interesting to see how the line level performance of it as a pre-pro stacks up.

 

[LxFx]

I couldn't find a multichannel (5.1 + stereo zone 2 = 7 channels driven) amplifier with around 100W per channel for a reasonable price on the websites of the brands I know. Can you point me in a good direction for those quality amps that are 10% the cost of a receiver? Should I just stack several stereo amps instead?

 

[mcdn]

I couldn't find a multichannel (5.1 + stereo zone 2 = 7 channels driven) amplifier with around 100W per channel for a reasonable price on the websites of the brands I know. Can you point me in a good direction for those quality amps that are 10% the cost of a receiver? Should I just stack several stereo amps instead?

Since centre channels are mostly a waste of time, you only need one stereo power amp for your front L/R. The AV receiver will have enough power to drive the surround channels in any reasonably sized room.

 

[techsamurai]

Someone ought to test the comparison of the 70 or 60 with external power versus the Cinema 40 and 8015 for 5 channels.

Especially now that Marantz charges for every watt by the pound. Plus, you can get a real amp with a real 5 year warranty like Marantz used to offer in the good old days.

 

[ban25]

Someone ought to test the comparison of the 70 or 60 with external power versus the Cinema 40 and 8015 for 5 channels.

Especially now that Marantz charges for every watt by the pound. Plus, you can get a real amp with a real 5 year warranty like Marantz used to offer in the good old days.

It's a huge downgrade in room correction. Cinema 70 only has the ancient Audyssey MultEQ (not XT or XT32) and will not receive support for Dirac Live. If you want Dirac, you need the Cinema 50 or better.

 

[GXAlan]

It's a huge downgrade in room correction. Cinema 70 only has the ancient Audyssey MultEQ (not XT or XT32) and will not receive support for Dirac Live. If you want Dirac, you need the Cinema 50 or better.

 

[techsamurai]

It's a huge downgrade in room correction. Cinema 70 only has the ancient Audyssey MultEQ (not XT or XT32) and will not receive support for Dirac Live. If you want Dirac, you need the Cinema 50 or better.

Thanks for the info! While it's small, the Cinema 70 is not cheap by any means to not include HDAM and XT32.

 

[techsamurai]

View attachment 257339

Reading this is a bit confusing so I had to look at Audyssey Labs's explanation

16x means "16 times more". We don't publish the exact resolution of the filters. MultEQ has dozens of control points (many more than 16). MultEQ XT has hundreds. MultEQ XT32 has more than ten thousand.

I've seen one set of corrections posted in another thread and they were pretty different between XT and XT32. Surprisingly, they differed more in the bass where you'd expect the least improvement given the high resolution of XT and MultEQ for the subwoofer.

For the subwoofer, the resolution difference is 128x for the old versions and 512x for XT32 so there's not much of an improvement. In fact, we can safely say that XT32, XT and MultEQ would handle the subwoofer the same way and accuracy is more important than the resolution unless you have a dip in one hz and XT32 finds that.

For the satellites (regular channels), it looks like XT32 has a huge advantage as it probably handles a few Hz per filter while MultEQ may handle 1,000hz in the high frequencies.

The rest seem to be the same as the number of measurement positions aren't important as they recommend using the same seat and just moving the microphone small distances.

 

[mcdn]

...In fact, we can safely say that XT32, XT and MultEQ would handle the subwoofer the same way and accuracy is more important than the resolution unless you have a dip in one hz and XT32 finds that.
...

This is backwards I think. For reasonable bass correction you need lots of FIR taps ("control points" in marketing babble). Results posted here and elsewhere suggest only XT32 is actually good enough at bass correction to match other options like Dirac or MiniDSP with manual (measurement based) filters.

 

[mcdn]

Thanks for the info! While it's small, the Cinema 70 is not cheap by any means to not include HDAM and XT32.

I wouldn't worry about HDAM, that's just a marketing gimmick and they often measure worse than normal op-amps. XT32 unfortunately only comes with high end receivers, regardless of brand. I guess the licensing fees must be high?

 

[GXAlan]

I guess the licensing fees must be high?

Sound United now owns the patents for Audyssey.

 

[techsamurai]

I wouldn't worry about HDAM, that's just a marketing gimmick and they often measure worse than normal op-amps. XT32 unfortunately only comes with high end receivers, regardless of brand. I guess the licensing fees must be high?

It's wild - the Marantz SR6011 which sold for $1,399 offered XT32 while the Cinema 70 which sells for $1,200 only offers MultEQ. The Cinema 60 which is more expensive than the 6011 at $1,700 offers XT. The cheapest Cinema series to offer XT32 is the Cinema 50 at $2,500.

Marantz owns the licensing - they've lost their minds.

 

[AudioJester]

As a pre-pro the Integra 3.4 actually seems a viable option. Much higher voltage on the preouts and Dirac.

 

[mcdn]

I can only imagine that having decided to differentiate by having full pre-outs in the Cinema series they're then trying to avoid putting XT32 into the lower end (i.e. lower amp power/channel count) devices, otherwise dealers would sell the low end device and external power amps. The SR6011 would be a bargain if it was still available.

 

[GXAlan]

I can only imagine that having decided to differentiate by having full pre-outs in the Cinema series they're then trying to avoid putting XT32 into the lower end (i.e. lower amp power/channel count) devices, otherwise dealers would sell the low end device and external power amps. The SR6011 would be a bargain if it was still available.

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