Marantz Cinema 50 installed

[slacki]

i just did a short 15hz signal check (from youtube) and noticed that my center also starts the playback, even if i set the crossover to 80hz?!
anyone else encountering this too? looks like a bug or some "magic". i have all speakers set to small, use auro3d/auromatic and crossover is for the fronts at 80 (including center), surrounds 90 and heigths 100hz. so i would expect _no signal at all_ when i play something like 15hz test signal

all other speakers "feel" ok, so i feel nothing when i touch them
firmware is up to date

 

[Geronimo.USMC]

i just did a short 15hz signal check (from youtube) and noticed that my center also starts the playback, even if i set the crossover to 80hz?!
anyone else encountering this too? looks like a bug or some "magic". i have all speakers set to small, use auro3d/auromatic and crossover is for the fronts at 80 (including center), surrounds 90 and heigths 100hz. so i would expect _no signal at all_ when i play something like 15hz test signal

all other speakers "feel" ok, so i feel nothing when i touch them
firmware is up to date

Try with no processing/up-mixing.

Also, be mindful that a crossover is a slope and not a hard wall.

 

[slacki]

Also, be mindful that a crossover is a slope

yeah i know, but when i set the crossover to 80, i would expect to get a (feelable) signal to maybe 40hz, but then there should be nothing
i will see what happens when i turn off upmixing, but this still feels very wrong to me if upmixing "kills" the crossover settings - all other loudspeakers do nothing, even my big FL/FR (tannoy xt8f) are silent

an idea where i can get a 5.1 15hz signal for testing? without upmixing, there is no way to get youtube music in more than stereo (afaik).

 

[juliangst]

I really want to see those new Marantz receivers and the processor measured. Design and features look really nice and support for Dirac Live bass control is game changing

 

[SynthesisCinema]

I really want to see those new Marantz receivers and the processor measured. Design and features look really nice and support for Dirac Live bass control is game changing

Best looking units available at this price region! Expect them to measure slightly worse than X3800H due to opting for Ti DAC chips with HDAM. Cinema 40 should have the improved SA-2 version like SR8015 and manufactured in Japan so fingers crossed @amirm gets the Cinema 40 and 50 at some point!

If you didn´t watch the video posted on page 3 then here are the prices for Dirac & DLBC upgrades:

Marantz Cinema 40 & 50 Dirac Live 2023 March after firmware update (Phase 1)
- Limited Bandwith 259$
- Full Bandwith 349$

Dirac Live Bass Control - 2024/Q1 - TBD (Phase 2)
- Single sub 349$
- Multisub 499$

All-in-one package - 2024/Q1 - TBD (Phase 2)
- Full correction + single bass control 649$
- Full correction + multi sub bass control 799$

 

[peng]

Best looking units available! Expect them to measure slightly worse than X3800H due to opting for Ti DAC chips with HDAM. Cinema 40 should have the improved SA-2 version like SR8015 and manufactured in Japan so fingers crossed @amirm gets the Cinema 40 and 50 at some point!

If you didn´t watch the video posted on page 3 then here are the prices for Dirac & DLBC upgrades:

Marantz Cinema 40 & 50 Dirac Live 2023 March after firmware update (Phase 1)
- Limited Bandwith 259$
- Full Bandwith 349$

Dirac Live Bass Control - 2024/Q1 - TBD (Phase 2)
- Single sub 349$
- Multisub 499$

All-in-one package - 2024/Q1 - TBD (Phase 2)
- Full correction + single bass control 649$
- Full correction + multi sub bass control 799$

As expected, better HDAMs apparently couldn't help the post covid SR8015 based on Gene's comments:

"Marantz sent me a post covid SR8015 and I found it's distortion to be significantly higher than the SR8015 I reviewed that's still in my AV rack."

Onkyo Tx-Rz50 vs Denon X3800H

I currently have the Onkyo TX-RZ50. It’s still new in the box and I have until January 14th to return it. I purchased this Onkyo based on this video review by Andrew Robinson. In the review he says it’s one of his favorites for many reasons. It does come with Dirac live ready to use out of...

forums.audioholics.com

Note the key words "significantly higher". The fact remains that the PCM5102A has 13 to 14 dB higher distortions than the AK4458 previously used in D+M AVRs including the SR8015. Hopefully the Cinema 40 will have a better IC than the PC5102A, but that's being optimistic as it isn't quite at the level of the SR8015 to begin with. My understand (from you, I think) is that it is situated in between the old SR7015 and SR8015.

At least the March date for Dirac Live is good news.

 

[SynthesisCinema]

As expected, better HDAMs apparently couldn't help the post covid SR8015 based on Gene's comments:

Onkyo Tx-Rz50 vs Denon X3800H

I currently have the Onkyo TX-RZ50. It’s still new in the box and I have until January 14th to return it. I purchased this Onkyo based on this video review by Andrew Robinson. In the review he says it’s one of his favorites for many reasons. It does come with Dirac live ready to use out of...

forums.audioholics.com

"Marantz sent me a post covid SR8015 and I found it's distortion to be significantly higher than the SR8015 I reviewed that's still in my AV rack."

Note the key words "significantly higher". The fact remains that the PCM5102A has 13 to 14 dB higher distortions than the AK4458 previously used in D+M AVRs including the SR8015. Hopefully the Cinema 40 will have a better IC than the PC5102A, but that's being optimistic as it isn't quite at the level of the SR8015 to begin with. My understand (from you, I think) is that it is situated in between the old SR7015 and SR8015.

At least the March date for Dirac Live is good news.

Disappointing, but not necessarily deal breaker as the new features/connections like 4x sub preouts and Dirac support makes up the SINAD drop and the old ones had ~80db SINAD which shouldn`t be issue. Could/should have picked something better from ESS, but every dollar counts and the engineers found PCM5102A having acceptable performance that any shortcomings shown by objective measurements falls below audible threshold. Gene also said; Although the distortion is higher, it's inaudible so it's always important to put these things into perspective.

Cinema 40 should be direct replacement of SR7015. Difference being just like Denon did with X4800H Marantz also moved Cinema 40 production for Japan Shirakawa factory. The leaks which got posted earlier had Cinema 30 shown there, but nothing else. The avsforum member jdsmoothie told ~ year ago that sr8015/x6700h replacements are on different cycle so 2023 was always the plan for the "Cinema 30 - X6800H". I expect D&M will introduce them at CEDIA 2023 like they did this year! I`m intrested will Marantz go for a higher spec 15.2 unit with flagship avr beefing up the power amp section like X8500H.

 

[juliangst]

Marantz Cinema 40 & 50 Dirac Live 2023 March after firmware update (Phase 1)
- Limited Bandwith 259$
- Full Bandwith 349$

Dirac Live Bass Control - 2024/Q1 - TBD (Phase 2)
- Single sub 349$
- Multisub 499$

All-in-one package - 2024/Q1 - TBD (Phase 2)
- Full correction + single bass control 649$
- Full correction + multi sub bass control 799$

Damn that's really expensive. I think I'm better off with Dirac live for PC and a multichannel DAC in this case

 

[SynthesisCinema]

Damn that's really expensive. I think I'm better off with Dirac live for PC and a multichannel DAC in this case

What about Onkyo RZ-50 which comes with Dirac? No support for dlbc though which is left for the RZ-70/90 possibly.

 

[ban25]

Disappointing, but not necessarily deal breaker as the new features/connections like 4x sub preouts and Dirac support makes up the SINAD drop and the old ones had ~80db SINAD which shouldn`t be issue. Could/should have picked something better from ESS, but every dollar counts and the engineers found PCM5102A having acceptable performance that any shortcomings shown by objective measurements falls below audible threshold. Gene also said; Although the distortion is higher, it's inaudible so it's always important to put these things into perspective.

Cinema 40 should be direct replacement of SR7015. Difference being just like Denon did with X4800H Marantz also moved Cinema 40 production for Japan Shirakawa factory. The leaks which got posted earlier had Cinema 30 shown there, but nothing else. The avsforum member jdsmoothie told ~ year ago that sr8015/x6700h replacements are on different cycle so 2023 was always the plan for the "Cinema 30 - X6800H". I expect D&M will introduce them at CEDIA 2023 like they did this year! I`m intrested will Marantz go for a higher spec 15.2 unit with flagship avr beefing up the power amp section like X8500H.

I would not expect Marantz to do a 15+ channel AVR as they have already introduced the separates (AV10 / AMP10). It looks like the way Sound United has segmented their product line is to offer separates at the top of the market under the Marantz banner and an AVR (A1H) under Denon. But I agree with you, I would not worry about the SINAD. Cinema 40 likely will have the same DAC as Cinema 50, though AV10 has a different DAC that measures much better.

 

[juliangst]

What about Onkyo RZ-50 which comes with Dirac? No support for dlbc though which is left for the RZ-70/90 possibly.

The only reason I considered the Marantz Cinema 50 is because of Dirac Bass control.

I only need 2 channels of amplification because 99% of the content I consume is stereo only anyways.
I also want 2 or, even better, 4 sub outs for the smoothest bass response in my stereo setup.

If the Marantz measures good enough it would be a good all in one solution for my needs but with $800 extra for the whole bass control package it's not worth it anymore.
I'll likely go for Dirac Live on a mini PC+ Topping DM7+ Purifi or Hypex

 

[peng]

Disappointing, but not necessarily deal breaker as the new features/connections like 4x sub preouts and Dirac support makes up the SINAD drop and the old ones had ~80db SINAD which shouldn`t be issue. Could/should have picked something better from ESS, but every dollar counts and the engineers found PCM5102A having acceptable performance that any shortcomings shown by objective measurements falls below audible threshold. Gene also said; Although the distortion is higher, it's inaudible so it's always important to put these things into perspective.

Cinema 40 should be direct replacement of SR7015. Difference being just like Denon did with X4800H Marantz also moved Cinema 40 production for Japan Shirakawa factory. The leaks which got posted earlier had Cinema 30 shown there, but nothing else. The avsforum member jdsmoothie told ~ year ago that sr8015/x6700h replacements are on different cycle so 2023 was always the plan for the "Cinema 30 - X6800H". I expect D&M will introduce them at CEDIA 2023 like they did this year! I`m intrested will Marantz go for a higher spec 15.2 unit with flagship avr beefing up the power amp section like X8500H.

On the measurements side, based on the results of the AV8805, 8805A, 2 samples of the AV7705, and one AV7706 (by Matthew, he did not publish the results but said it was similar to that of the AV7705), one SR6014, and one SR7015, then I guess the take away is:

If use as AVR, and you are happy with 60 to 75 dB SINAD on the preamp/dac side, (depending on the signal frequency, magnitude etc.) then go with the C40 for the look, unless you want to save a hundred dollars, then go with the AVR-X4800H.

If use as preamp/processor and you are happy with 60 to 75 dB SINAD, then go with the Marantz, or the Denon, for the same reasons, except you may then also consider the Onkyo, or go with a Anthem AVM70 4K version that now offers deep discounts, if you are willing to give up a lot of features not found on the Anthem, and take a chance on ARCG vs Denon/Marantz's promised Dirac Live+bass control.

 

[peng]

If the Marantz measures good enough

What is good enough though, and are you referring to SINAD at pre out, SINAD at speaker output IMD, cross talk, DR/SNR, freq dependence, FR for digital inputs/reconstruction filter effects, linearity, or just pre out SINAD?

 

[juliangst]

What is good enough though, and are you referring to SINAD at pre out, SINAD at speaker output IMD, cross talk, DR/SNR, freq dependence, FR for digital inputs/reconstruction filter effects, linearity, or just pre out SINAD?

Just the usual measurements. Many AVRs can't output 2V properly without a significant drop in THD+N.
Jitter performance and DAC filter attenuation is not so great either on many AVRs tested here.
Would really like to see how Marantz have improved upon those common desingn flaws

 

[ban25]

Just the usual measurements. Many AVRs can't output 2V properly without a significant drop in THD+N.
Jitter performance and DAC filter attenuation is not so great either on many AVRs tested here.
Would really like to see how Marantz have improved upon those common desingn flaws

The AV10 now offers a choice of DAC filters, the typical Marantz slow filter or a benchmark filter:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-2022-marantz-av-10-flagship-dirac-processor-owners-thread.3261194/post-62156061

Not sure if this is available in the C50 or 40 though.

 

[HellBound]

Sitting on an AV7702 myself. Been looking at Cinema 50 for a while, intend to pick one up tomorrow. Are you satisfied with it?

 

[Dj7675]

As expected, better HDAMs apparently couldn't help the post covid SR8015 based on Gene's comments:

"Marantz sent me a post covid SR8015 and I found it's distortion to be significantly higher than the SR8015 I reviewed that's still in my AV rack."

Onkyo Tx-Rz50 vs Denon X3800H

I currently have the Onkyo TX-RZ50. It’s still new in the box and I have until January 14th to return it. I purchased this Onkyo based on this video review by Andrew Robinson. In the review he says it’s one of his favorites for many reasons. It does come with Dirac live ready to use out of...

forums.audioholics.com

Note the key words "significantly higher". The fact remains that the PCM5102A has 13 to 14 dB higher distortions than the AK4458 previously used in D+M AVRs including the SR8015. Hopefully the Cinema 40 will have a better IC than the PC5102A, but that's being optimistic as it isn't quite at the level of the SR8015 to begin with. My understand (from you, I think) is that it is situated in between the old SR7015 and SR8015.

At least the March date for Dirac Live is good news.

It is so unfortunate that units like the x3700 and now the sr8015… had very good reviews/bench tests. Then consumers take them into consideration when they make their purchase… but actual performance is much much worse after DAC changes. When Gene says “significantly higher”, did he update the original review with the new data? It would seem that would be the proper thing to do.

 

[stupidvillager]

Sitting on an AV7702 myself. Been looking at Cinema 50 for a while, intend to pick one up tomorrow. Are you satisfied with it?

I have enjoyed mine. Though I may be in the minority here as I use the internal amps. Use it mainly for movies and TV with the occasional music streaming. I think it sounds great. I also like the 2 presets. I have preset 1 as the master and preset 2 is used for tinkering.

 

[slacki]

i like mine too, even if it has some things that needs to be fixed by firmware.
what annoys me more than the beta-devices, is the extremely bad customer service from marantz.

 

[Rockman2]

Can anyone pop the lid an let us know what DAC's are inside? That would be great!