Marantz Cinema 50 AVR Review

[peng]

Yes, but having both in my home at the same time, unless I'm just missing something, XT32 is easier to tune and with more tuning-ability than with ARCG. However, like I said in another thread, on the whole, I like the sound of the Anthem in my setup more than the Denon X3700H. I MIGHT be able to fix what I don't like with the Denon with even more time spent, but I've spent probably 3X the time running Audyssey and playing with the App, A/B testing against the 2 presets with minor changes of the same graph between the two during the same song, and yet I still haven't gotten the overall sound, on the whole, to be as good as the Anthem. Speaking strictly to bass management though, it's been easier and better with the Denon.
That said, because I have multiple subs and a difficult room (I have been running 3 mostly, but have a 4th in place that I've been playing with), I'm going to go pick up a 3800 today (same as the C50 right?) to see if the 4 sub inputs does anything for my room. If it doesn't do anything any better than the 3700 for me, I may just keep the Anthem and pick up a miniDSP.

Have you tried limiting the RC range to below 500 Hz? Depending on the speakers and room, XT32 may not do well in the range above 300 Hz.

AARCG limits it to 5000 Hz by default but XT32 defaults to 20,000 Hz.

Given that you have either XT32 or AARC, the minidsp is likely a waste of time, based on my experience, ymmv though.

I can sell you mine for $100 but I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[01svtL]

Have you tried limiting the RC range to below 500 Hz? Depending on the speakers and room, XT32 may not do well in the range above 300 Hz.

AARCG limits it to 5000 Hz by default but XT32 defaults to 20,000 Hz.

Given that you have either XT32 or AARC, the minidsp is likely a waste of time, based on my experience, ymmv though.

I can sell you mine for $100 but I wouldn't recommend it.

Well my thoughts are that I'd apply miniDSP to the subs and then run ARCG to see if it helps, since the Anthem doesn't sweep/measure the two separately. I mean in the beginning of an XT sweep, it sends a signal to each sub channel separately and THEN sums during the rest of the sweeps. ARCG sends a signal to both channels at the same time and sums it all together from the very beginning. I really think my room needs to have them measured/aligned/dsp'd separately and then it would be fine to sum them for the room correction. I may take you up on that offer. Does it come with everything I need aside from the UMIK-1?

 

[techsamurai]

Well my thoughts are that I'd apply miniDSP to the subs and then run ARCG to see if it helps, since the Anthem doesn't sweep/measure the two separately. I mean in the beginning of an XT sweep, it sends a signal to each sub channel separately and THEN sums during the rest of the sweeps. ARCG sends a signal to both channels at the same time and sums it all together from the very beginning. I really think my room needs to have them measured/aligned/dsp'd separately and then it would be fine to sum them for the room correction. I may take you up on that offer. Does it come with everything I need aside from the UMIK-1?

What do you rest the mic on? I cleared my Audyssey settings the other day and got creative and used a Rumble Roller (it's a really hard foam roller, the best ever) to rest the mic on. I ended up with the worst calibration ever. It was so high pitched that I totally shut down Audyssey and bass was non-existent (I turned my SVS from -60db to 0db and I couldn't hear any difference).

I switched to my outdoor pillows as a resting spot for the mic which absorb sound and compensate for the removal of the microfiber cushions in the back of the sofa (which are apparently excellent at absorbing sound). Night and day!

It's possible using the rumble roller as a tripod was reflecting sound or vibrating affecting the mic. Either way, thank god I lucked into a good support for the mic 15 years ago.

Also, the volume of the sub makes a difference and I'm not sure if ArcG requires the sub to be set at a high volume. I noticed new versions of Audyssey require the sub to be a certain volume which mine didn't do but I had noticed on my own that the older Audyssey was getting tripped up by lower sub volume. So I kinda matched the volumes before running Audyssey and checked the SPL with my phone to make sure they were close during calibration (speaker sweeps vs sub sound).

 

[01svtL]

What do you rest the mic on? I cleared my Audyssey settings the other day and got creative and used a Rumble Roller (it's a really hard foam roller, the best ever) to rest the mic on. I ended up with the worst calibration ever. It was so high pitched that I totally shut down Audyssey and bass was non-existent (I turned my SVS from -60db to 0db and I couldn't hear any difference).

I switched to my outdoor pillows as a resting spot for the mic which absorb sound and compensate for the removal of the microfiber cushions in the back of the sofa (which are apparently excellent at absorbing sound). Night and day!

It's possible using the rumble roller as a tripod was reflecting sound or vibrating affecting the mic. Either way, thank god I lucked into a good support for the mic 15 years ago.

Also, the volume of the sub makes a difference and I'm not sure if ArcG requires the sub to be set at a high volume. I noticed new versions of Audyssey require the sub to be a certain volume which mine didn't do but I had noticed on my own that the older Audyssey was getting tripped up by lower sub volume. So I kinda matched the volumes before running Audyssey and checked the SPL with my phone to make sure they were close during calibration (speaker sweeps vs sub sound).

Well my couch has a fairly low back. So, I have my mic on a camera tripod set on a short stool behind the couch. The boom arm reaches over the back of the couch so I can put the mic right at ear height at MLP. I have played with draping a soft blanket across the seating surface of the couch, since it is a tightly-pulled leather surface. Maybe I need to drape one over the seat-back part of the couch too?

As far as the subs go, I trim their volume up a good 5db higher than my speakers, measured at MLP, before running room correction. There's definitely a null at my MLP, which I can't fix (it's our living room), so I bump the bass to get decent sound there, and of course when I stand up and move around the living room and kitchen it is a little boomy. No choice but to make sacrifices I suppose. Maybe the next house will be better.

 

[techsamurai]

Well my couch has a fairly low back. So, I have my mic on a camera tripod set on a short stool behind the couch. The boom arm reaches over the back of the couch so I can put the mic right at ear height at MLP. I have played with draping a soft blanket across the seating surface of the couch, since it is a tightly-pulled leather surface. Maybe I need to drape one over the seat-back part of the couch too?

As far as the subs go, I trim their volume up a good 5db higher than my speakers, measured at MLP, before running room correction. There's definitely a null at my MLP, which I can't fix (it's our living room), so I bump the bass to get decent sound there, and of course when I stand up and move around the living room and kitchen it is a little boomy. No choice but to make sacrifices I suppose. Maybe the next house will be better.

The blanket is a clever idea especially since leather reflects and sitting there will change the reflections. Just curious, have you tried 1 position only and just marginally moving around that one position essentially a very tiny bubble? When I looked at Audyssey's tutorial, it have 8 positions of 3 seat couch but Gene at Audioholics was suggesting a much tighter bubble for 2 seats.

 

[01svtL]

Have you tried limiting the RC range to below 500 Hz? Depending on the speakers and room, XT32 may not do well in the range above 300 Hz.

AARCG limits it to 5000 Hz by default but XT32 defaults to 20,000 Hz.

Given that you have either XT32 or AARC, the minidsp is likely a waste of time, based on my experience, ymmv though.

I can sell you mine for $100 but I wouldn't recommend it.

Well, I did limit the Audyssey to 5K to in an attempt to be a direct comparison to ARCG.

 

[01svtL]

The blanket is a clever idea especially since leather reflects and sitting there will change the reflections. Just curious, have you tried 1 position only and just marginally moving around that one position essentially a very tiny bubble? When I looked at Audyssey's tutorial, it have 8 positions of 3 seat couch but Gene at Audioholics was suggesting a much tighter bubble for 2 seats.

Yea I've tried it both ways. In other homes, I have actually found that changing the order of my placements and/or starting slightly above or below ear level got where where I wanted it. It's likely I just haven't found the right combination of placements for my room yet. We just moved here a few months ago and after seeing Amir's review of the T758, which is what I had and was happy with in other homes, it pushed me over the edge to start trying new receivers with more up-to-date room corrections.

 

[techsamurai]

after seeing Amir's review of the T758

oh my god, I just read the summary of the review. Have you tried a $9 Apple dongle with Dirac? This is why I don't want to try anything new. I have the opposite of FOMO - it's more FOGS (fear of getting screwed).

 

[01svtL]

oh my god, I just read the summary of the review. Have you tried a $9 Apple dongle with Dirac? This is why I don't want to try anything new. I have the opposite of FOMO - it's more FOGS (fear of getting screwed).

No I haven't. What's the connection between the dongle and Dirac?

 

[peng]

Well my thoughts are that I'd apply miniDSP to the subs and then run ARCG to see if it helps, since the Anthem doesn't sweep/measure the two separately. I mean in the beginning of an XT sweep, it sends a signal to each sub channel separately and THEN sums during the rest of the sweeps. ARCG sends a signal to both channels at the same time and sums it all together from the very beginning. I really think my room needs to have them measured/aligned/dsp'd separately and then it would be fine to sum them for the room correction. I may take you up on that offer. Does it come with everything I need aside from the UMIK-1?

Isn't the MRX540's two subouts are independent? Or only independent for the 740 and 1140?

If it is just the same signal for both then yes, the minidsp may help.

My minidsp is the 2x4HD
I think I have whatever came in the box directly from them, so the power supply is included but the Umik-1 mic was ordered separately.
I think if you limit Audyssey to 500 Hz even 1000 Hz, you may not find the sound bright any more. None of my Denon AVRs sounded brighter than my other gear.

At the minimum you have to try disabling MRC, Denon has it enabled by default. You must have tried that already right? Assuming you do have the $20 app.

 

[techsamurai]

No I haven't. What's the connection between the dongle and Dirac?

I was just joking about the conclusion of the NAD T758 review :

Conclusions
The overall fit and finish of the NAD T758 V3 was to my liking as I reported earlier. Alas, objective performance is quite shameful. It appears that no testing was performed for the digital processing or even simple distortion measurements. No wonder that outside of the amplifier, NAD doesn't provide any specifications. It appears that even after you spend $1,400, you get distortion and noise factory in these AVRs. A $9 Apple dongle easily outperforms what these devices produce.

 

[01svtL]

Isn't the MRX540's two subouts are independent? Or only independent for the 740 and 1140?

If it is just the same signal for both then yes, the minidsp may help.

My minidsp is the 2x4HD
I think I have whatever came in the box directly from them, so the power supply is included but the Umik-1 mic was ordered separately.
I think if you limit Audyssey to 500 Hz even 1000 Hz, you may not find the sound bright any more. None of my Denon AVRs sounded brighter than my other gear.

At the minimum you have to try disabling MRC, Denon has it enabled by default. You must have tried that already right? Assuming you do have the $20 app.

View attachment 268887

I mean, the 540 does have 2 sub outs. However, when it first checks levels, it sends one signal to the sub out channel and you hear all of the subs together. There is no option to adjust volumes on different subs like you can at the beginning of running Audyssey when it checks levels. ARCG just says to reduce sub level by Xdb and you can then play with all of the subs til it gets there or choose to ignore the suggestion and keep going. This leads me to believe that it sums the sweep from the very beginning and just tries to smooth the overall bass response in the room, rather than smoothing each sub channel independently.

I have the front two subs, which are identical, Y'd into Sub1 and the other two subs Y'd into Sub2. The front two are right up front, in between my mains (hoping for that punch in the chest feeling). My third is on the same wall but in the left front corner. My fourth is in the corner behind me. Subs 3 and 4 are in the 2 spots in the room that I found had the best placement based on a sub crawl. I wonder if it would make sense to combine a front sub with one of the corner subs in the Y splitter, and then the same with the other front sub and remaining corner sub, then run room correction with it that way.

I do disable MRC with Audyssey. However, according to the graphs from my sweeps with the Anthem, it looks like my speakers DO dip right around 2khz, which is strange, as they are a Jeff Bagby design that has been very well-reviewed by those who've heard it. Jeff is (was) a very well-regarded speaker designer. Or, maybe I'm just not reading the graphs correctly. I'm pretty new to this active room correction and graph reading. I know what sound I'm going for, I'm just not entirely sure how to get there, yet. I'm learning a little more here and there almost every day.

 

[peng]

I mean, the 540 does have 2 sub outs. However, when it first checks levels, it sends one signal to the sub out channel and you hear all of the subs together. There is no option to adjust volumes on different subs like you can at the beginning of running Audyssey when it checks levels. ARCG just says to reduce sub level by Xdb and you can then play with all of the subs til it gets there or choose to ignore the suggestion and keep going. This leads me to believe that it sums the sweep from the very beginning and just tries to smooth the overall bass response in the room, rather than smoothing each sub channel independently.

I have the front two subs, which are identical, Y'd into Sub1 and the other two subs Y'd into Sub2. The front two are right up front, in between my mains (hoping for that punch in the chest feeling). My third is on the same wall but in the left front corner. My fourth is in the corner behind me. Subs 3 and 4 are in the 2 spots in the room that I found had the best placement based on a sub crawl. I wonder if it would make sense to combine a front sub with one of the corner subs in the Y splitter, and then the same with the other front sub and remaining corner sub, then run room correction with it that way.

I do disable MRC with Audyssey. However, according to the graphs from my sweeps with the Anthem, it looks like my speakers DO dip right around 2khz, which is strange, as they are a Jeff Bagby design that has been very well-reviewed by those who've heard it. Jeff is (was) a very well-regarded speaker designer. Or, maybe I'm just not reading the graphs correctly. I'm pretty new to this active room correction and graph reading. I know what sound I'm going for, I'm just not entirely sure how to get there, yet. I'm learning a little more here and there almost every day.

I just checked and realize now that the MRX540 and 740 indeed have the two subouts in parallel. Only the MRX1140 has independent subouts, so as you mentioned, that is surprising, given the price point and the availability of the auto phase feature of the AARCG. If you want better results then you would have to at least time aligned your 4 subs.

 

[01svtL]

I just checked and realize now that the MRX540 and 740 indeed have the two subouts in parallel. Only the MRX1140 has independent subouts, so as you mentioned, that is surprising, given the price point and the availability of the auto phase feature of the AARCG. If you want better results then you would have to at least time aligned your 4 subs.

And I have no idea how to do that haha

 

[slacki]

i also went for the route with minidsp and MSO first, then audyssey, and the result was worse than audyssey alone. tbh: i would not buy a minidsp. i have the 2x4HD, if you need it and live in EU, write me a PM, i might sell it. It was used once :>
i reported my experience also here in the forum, see https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ults-some-questions.41431/page-2#post-1477249

 

[Ruspamen]

Good evening, in the marantz cinema 50, to select the front pre out outputs, do i have to assign 11.1 channels like the denon amplifiers or do i simply put the front ones as pre?
For the best sinad...

 

[peng]

Good evening, in the marantz cinema 50, to select the front pre out outputs, do i have to assign 11.1 channels like the denon amplifiers or do i simply put the front ones as pre?
For the best sinad...

No, it is now an official feature that you can do it on per pair (and the center channel too) basis. No need to cheat anymore.

 

[alexf40]

Has anyone moved to Dirac Live yet? Wondering how you found the difference to Audyssey?

 

[slacki]

also noticed it now, i thought there is a trial for 1 or 2 weeks, but seems like there is none. dont want to "waste" 350 $

 

[techsamurai]

also noticed it now, i thought there is a trial for 1 or 2 weeks, but seems like there is none. dont want to "waste" 350 $

That's an excellent point - what if you try it, don't like it, or don't think it's worth the $350? There are always going to be some who feel that Audyssey is better for them or Dirac is just not worth the extra money.