Marantz Cinema 30

[majkik74]

I need some advice. I have a Marantz c30 and I want to connect another Av receiver Yamaha RX-A2080 as an external amplifier to the front speakers by connecting it via RCA connectors to achieve 13 channels. I connected it to the Marantz c30 to the RCA connector PRE-OUT and the other end to the Yamaha input on the CD and switched it to Direct without electrical correction. Should I set the Yamaha amplifier to 0db? The output volume from the Marantz PRE-OUT is very quiet compared to another component such as a CD player in the Yamaha plays loudly at 40db and the sound with the Marantz from the PRE-OUT output I have to set almost to 0db and there is already a lot of noise when nothing is playing there. Because when I pass the calibration Marantz adjusts the volume level of the output to the Yamaha which I have to set to 5db but when I look at the distance of the speaker, instead of 3m, it is 18m away. Why is the sound so quiet compared to the CD player?

 

[DrStranger]

Any real reviews yet beside the marketing videos out there?

Andrew Robinson on YouTube . He has disabled the option to paste in the video and view from other sites but this is the url:

youtube.com/watch?v=ZdgM_vvtaYo

 

[peng]

I need some advice. I have a Marantz c30 and I want to connect another Av receiver Yamaha RX-A2080 as an external amplifier to the front speakers by connecting it via RCA connectors to achieve 13 channels. I connected it to the Marantz c30 to the RCA connector PRE-OUT and the other end to the Yamaha input on the CD and switched it to Direct without electrical correction. Should I set the Yamaha amplifier to 0db? The output volume from the Marantz PRE-OUT is very quiet compared to another component such as a CD player in the Yamaha plays loudly at 40db and the sound with the Marantz from the PRE-OUT output I have to set almost to 0db and there is already a lot of noise when nothing is playing there. Because when I pass the calibration Marantz adjusts the volume level of the output to the Yamaha which I have to set to 5db but when I look at the distance of the speaker, instead of 3m, it is 18m away. Why is the sound so quiet compared to the CD player?

CD players typical have output voltage rated 2 V maximum, probably higher so you need the volume control to attenuate the level to a maximum that you can tolerate. In the way you want to use it, you would normally set the Yamaha's volume to maximum or near maximum, so that the Marantz will control the volume. Not a good way to do it though, and you risk damages if you are not careful.

 

[majkik74]

CD players typical have output voltage rated 2 V maximum, probably higher so you need the volume control to attenuate the level to a maximum that you can tolerate. In the way you want to use it, you would normally set the Yamaha's volume to maximum or near maximum, so that the Marantz will control the volume. Not a good way to do it though, and you risk damages if you are not careful.

So what are the original power amplifiers? They are always at full power when turned on and the sound is controlled by the AV receiver? Or do they have a preamplifier inside so that the output is at the same level as a CD, Bluray player and other things? When I put it on 0db, it is not full power, but only at +16.5db. It should be enough if I put it on 0db or +2db. Ok, I'll try.

 

[peng]

So what are the original power amplifiers? They are always at full power when turned on and the sound is controlled by the AV receiver? Or do they have a preamplifier inside so that the output is at the same level as a CD, Bluray player and other things? When I put it on 0db, it is not full power, but only at +16.5db. It should be enough if I put it on 0db or +2db. Ok, I'll try.

Power amplifier output is at least dependent on the following:

- The magnitude (voltage) of the input signal.
- The AV receiver’s volume setting, for Yamaha RX-A2080 is, as you know +16.5 maximum.

In your CD input example, the receiver's input signal would be the CD player's output, and that could have output output voltage of between 0 to 2 V, the actual voltage would obviously varies all the time with signal, it is not a constant unless you are playing something like a tone or noise such as pink noise, white noise etc.

So, no, power amplifiers are not always at full power, not at all!

 

[Svend P]

Andrew Robinson on YouTube . He has disabled the option to paste in the video and view from other sites but this is the url:

We should actually thank him for that. His videos are a total waste of time. Pure subjective nonsense

 

[peng]

We should actually thank him for that. His videos are a total waste of time. Pure subjective nonsense

I always wonder why/how he managed to get so many devices to review, and have been for many years already, that's absolutely amazing. Have to agree, except if one is looking for entertainment value, it might not be a total waste of time.

 

[EWL5]

I always wonder why/how he managed to get so many devices to review, and have been for many years already, that's absolutely amazing. Have to agree, except if one is looking for entertainment value, it might not be a total waste of time.

His AVR reviews are the equivalent of home theater magazines: their sole purpose is to help sell product (even better if the product has ads in same magazine)!

 

[peng]

His AVR reviews are the equivalent of home theater magazines: their sole purpose is to help sell product (even better if the product has ads in same magazine)!

But unlike many others, he does not always say nice things about the reviewed device, no consistency there, just listen to what he said about the X3800H you will hear such total inconsistency vs what he said about similar to virtually the same product(s). No consistency in term of his silly descriptions on warm, cool, punch, soundstage kind of totally obvious bs, or as mentioned, nonsense. An excellent presenter for sure though, but I believe those who make their purchase decision based on sound quality would be better off just going by manufacturer's marketing info, at least there would be consistency, good or bad.

 

[EWL5]

But unlike many others, he does not always say nice things about the reviewed device, no consistency there, just listen to what he said about the X3800H you will hear such total inconsistency vs what he said about similar to virtually the same product(s). No consistency in term of his silly descriptions on warm, cool, punch, soundstage kind of totally obvious bs, or as mentioned, nonsense. An excellent presenter for sure though, but I believe those who make their purchase decision based on sound quality would be better off just going by manufacturer's marketing info, at least there would be consistency, good or bad.

Again, not too different from your run-of-the-mill home theater rag. At least some publications like Stereophile post measured curves, etc.

If you've ever seen video car reviews from SavageGeese on YT, you can appreciate that Mark often posts FR curves for the car audio (which is unheard of for car reviews in general)!

 

[majkik74]

Information for Marantz c30 owners. New function after software upgrade.After yesterday's upgrade 24.7 I found out that a new item was created in AUDIO/Audyssey. This is the Surround Level Compensation item. If the volume setting on the unit when using Audyssey Dynamic EQ is below the reference level, the volume of the channels located behind the listener is amplified in accordance with this volume setting to maintain the spatial experience for the listener. This is an increase of Light 2.8db--Medium 5.6db--Heavy 8.5db

 

[dobyblue]

Very cool, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Descartes]

I just want to point out as a matter of fact that SA-CD (Super Audio Compact Disc) is not a defunct format as of today: numerous new releases are still produced and this will most probably remain the case for a long time to come.

Yep contributing to it’s survival with over 300 SACD to date

 

[Sal1950]

Yep contributing to it’s survival with over 300 SACD to date

That is the unfortunate truth. They should have been replaced long ago by DVD-A or todays BluRay.
DSD remains the eternal PITA to audiophiles.

 

[Scytales]

That is the unfortunate truth. They should have been replaced long ago by DVD-A or todays BluRay.
DSD remains the eternal PITA to audiophiles.

Actually, I find that SACD are the most easy to use multichannel discs.

Reason is its use has been designed to look and feel exactly as a CD (which is a damn good and user-friendly format), whatever of its content (CD layer, stereo DSD, or multichannel DSD) is listened to and the system is properly standardized.

DVD-A is not as straightforward to use without a display screen, especially because there is no mandate to author a disc in s standardized fashion. Any content can be put in any "group", so there is always an ambiguity on which "group" to play to get the content (stereo or multichannel) you want. Some DVD-A players get an automatic recognition and play of the multichannel content, but this feature does not work on one of my DVD-A player... There is even the possibility of misreading a possible standard MPEG, Dolby or DTS DVD-V content on a DVD-A disc that has both type of program materials (that's possible) instead of the actual DVD-A content if the user interface of the player is not enough clear on that matter.

The user interface of SACD has obviouly been well thought out to be hardware controlled by standalone audio disc player through the touch of a button to choose what you want to do with the disc content, not by players that rely mostly on software interface built-in the disc content that need to be displayed on a screen to be properly used. I suspect that is the main reason the market has unambiguously chosen SACD over DVD-A two decades ago, the former still being with us whereas the latter has been dead in the water for all that time.

I have no experience with Blue-Ray disc as a music delivery format. I hope it is not as cumbersome to use as DVD-A in a simple hifi (without any audio/video hardware) system.

As far as sound quality is concerned, stereo DVD-A and SACD can both be as outstanding as... CD with well recorded music! And in multichannel, there are both equally good to my ears, even if SACD has still the advantage of the simplicity: all 6 channels have equal bandwidth and resolution (same as in stereo), whereas with DVD-A, this is far from being a given. And I forget to mention that the DVD-A format specification does not mandate to put a 2.0 stereo program on the disc, whereas the SACD format specification does. That means that if you listen in 2.0 stereo only, you can be assured that you listen to a professionnally made, artists approved, 2.0 stereo DSD master and not a downmix of a multichannel only-content as can be the case with DVD-A.

And hell, last but not least, the DVD-A format never was backward compatible with regular CD players, as the disc industry had demanded. When it was launched, It was not even backward compatible with already existing DVD-V players (an outstanding fact, if you think about it!), because a DVD-A needs a dedicated decoder to be read and play. To the contrary, Philips managed to design hybrid CD/SACD discs from the get-go of the format. That means that any optical disc player can read the CD layer of an hybrid disc.

DSD may be an unfamiliar, difficult digital format to be dealt with outside the realm of the physical media it was designed for, but the SACD disc system was very well put together from its very start, I think.

 

[Sal1950]

DSD may be an unfamiliar, difficult digital format to be dealt with outside the realm of the physical media it was designed for, but the SACD disc system was very well put together from its very start, I think.

I'll give ya the video display screen issue but then who's baby was DSD? Ah Sony right?
And none of the latest Sony disc players have a displays so your still screwed. LOL
Try to get your DRC running in native DSD.

 

[Miker 1102]

It was only when I got some multichannel SACD recordings I learned lower end Denon-Marantz models can't be fed multichannel DSD over HDMI - but the C30 can. Strongly recommend Fleetwood Mac Rumours 5.1 DSD. As others have mentioned, I'm hesitant to assign how great it sounds to the technical format when its clear the mix/master itself is appreciably different from any other version I've heard (including the Tidal

I know that, that's why I emphasized "implementation".
Keep in mind D+M has obviously tons more technical resources than the smaller boutique like AV devices manufacturers. Take for instance, the PCM5102A has SINAD spec of only about 92 dB, yet several Marantz/Denon AVR such as the C40,50,even 70, AVR-X4800H manage >93 dB as measured by Amir, with peak performance at the 95 dB range. So how did they implement those key parts would be my question, did they buy hand picked one that meets their specs, they did promise in the marketing info in the early days, that the substituted DAC ICs will have the same performance as the renowned AK4458 right, and to a large degree, they kept their promise.

The PCM5102A dac datasheet does not mention "DSD", but it also does not say it is not capable (D+M also has not been clear about "native DSD playback", nor does it really matter? So it may be that depending on how it is implemented, it could do it, or D+M manage to use the DAC IC in conjunction with other parts, again, I don't know, you may ask other ASR members who has expertise in DAC IC implementation.

I have owned quite a few Marantz, Denon, now Anthem, if I want to play my DSD files, I would use my separates, or at least use my desktop DACs with the AVR/AVP's analog inputs, but then I am not keen on playing multichannel DSD at all anyway.

Regardless, it never stops me from wondering why D+M made their decision to go with the PCM5102A when there were so many alternatives at the time, including the popular ES9006, and even other TI DAC ICs.

I have wondered this as well.

 

[Scytales]

I'll give ya the video display screen issue but then who's baby was DSD? Ah Sony right?
And none of the latest Sony disc players have a displays so your still screwed. LOL
Try to get your DRC running in native DSD.

DSD is the baby of Sony and Philips.


Yes, the latest Sony disc players capable of reading SACD have no display, and that is annoying.

Keep in mind D+M has obviously tons more technical resources than the smaller boutique like AV devices manufacturers. Take for instance, the PCM5102A has SINAD spec of only about 92 dB, yet several Marantz/Denon AVR such as the C40,50,even 70, AVR-X4800H manage >93 dB as measured by Amir, with peak performance at the 95 dB range. So how did they implement those key parts would be my question

The DAC datasheet lists what is called a "typical" performance. That is to say manufacturing variability can lead some batches of chips to perform better or worse than the typical performance, to say nothing of the quality of the implementation.

 

[BJL]

I have no experience with Blue-Ray disc as a music delivery format. I hope it is not as cumbersome to use as DVD-A in a simple hifi (without any audio/video hardware) system.

Blu ray audio is awkward because there are no standards. Some load immediately (like SACD), but sometimes default to Atmos (or whatever the surround format offered may be) and sometimes default to stereo. Some boot to a menu screen and you must select. A few are stereo only and those play most similarly to an SACD. Most European blu ray discs will play without need to use a monitor, they usually default to Atmos (if available) but you can select the other audio streams with colored buttons. But not all and they are not consistent with the default format playback. British and American blu rays have inconsistent authoring and generally make you wait through dire copyright notices before the disc boots up to play. Each company takes a different approach.

But the sound quality is superb, limited only by the mastering of the content. I have a small secondary monitor that I use for blu ray music playback (and DVD-A, DVD-V music discs.)

 

[Sal1950]

But the sound quality is superb, limited only by the mastering of the content. I have a small secondary monitor that I use for blu ray music playback (and DVD-A, DVD-V music discs.)

That's the glory of BD, they have plenty of room for all sort of replay formats, etc; to be included on one disc.
With CD there was no room for any choices, just hit play and go.
SACD and DVD were a total hodge-podge of variations, too many to describe.
Bottom line is, yes, for most modern media you need a display to chose from it's wide available options.