Marantz Cinema 30

[Tre2023]

It was only when I got some multichannel SACD recordings I learned lower end Denon-Marantz models can't be fed multichannel DSD over HDMI - but the C30 can. Strongly recommend Fleetwood Mac Rumours 5.1 DSD. As others have mentioned, I'm hesitant to assign how great it sounds to the technical format when its clear the mix/master itself is appreciably different from any other version I've heard (including the Tidal Atmos option).

Is it very different from the DVD-Audio version?

 

[peng]

It was only when I got some multichannel SACD recordings I learned lower end Denon-Marantz models can't be fed multichannel DSD over HDMI

That seems strange, I don't know how D+M implements DSD playback, and the C30/AVR-X6800H do use a different/better DAC IC. However, if you compare what they say about DSD multichannel playback in the manuals of the lower Marantz and Denon AVR models, the are identical, word for word. I remember it being the same with my old Denon AVR-X4400H, thought that again, has a different/better DAC.

I would suggest those who own the lower models try it, it should work as D+M's manuals, while not always have all the needed info, should be accurate about what the info they included.

AVR-X3800H, p.289:

Cinema 30, p.316

 

[EWL5]

That seems strange, I don't know how D+M implements DSD playback, and the C30/AVR-X6800H do use a different/better DAC IC. However, if you compare what they say about DSD multichannel playback in the manuals of the lower Marantz and Denon AVR models, the are identical, word for word. I remember it being the same with my old Denon AVR-X4400H, thought that again, has a different/better DAC.

I would suggest those who own the lower models try it, it should work as D+M's manuals, while not always have all the needed info, should be accurate about what the info they included.

AVR-X3800H, p.289:

View attachment 426213

Cinema 30, p.316

View attachment 426212

Here's the datasheet for the PCM5102A DAC (found in 3800/4800). It doesn't appear to offer native DSD support!

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm5102a.pdf?ts=1738693831804&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ti.com%252Fproduct%252FPCM5102A

 

[Tre2023]

The X3800H would be the lowest level Denon to support DSD over HDMI. The X2800H does not do so, though DSD 2 channel is supported over USB and PC/NAS. DSD signals will be decoded at the source and output as PCM using HDMI.

As for Marantz, the AV10, Cinema 30, 40 and 50 support DSD over HDMI. The Cinema 60 and 70S do not do so.

 

[peng]

Here's the datasheet for the PCM5102A DAC (found in 3800/4800). It doesn't appear to offer native DSD support!

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm5102a.pdf?ts=1738693831804&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ti.com%252Fproduct%252FPCM5102A

I know that, that's why I emphasized "implementation".
Keep in mind D+M has obviously tons more technical resources than the smaller boutique like AV devices manufacturers. Take for instance, the PCM5102A has SINAD spec of only about 92 dB, yet several Marantz/Denon AVR such as the C40,50,even 70, AVR-X4800H manage >93 dB as measured by Amir, with peak performance at the 95 dB range. So how did they implement those key parts would be my question, did they buy hand picked one that meets their specs, they did promise in the marketing info in the early days, that the substituted DAC ICs will have the same performance as the renowned AK4458 right, and to a large degree, they kept their promise.

The PCM5102A dac datasheet does not mention "DSD", but it also does not say it is not capable (D+M also has not been clear about "native DSD playback", nor does it really matter? So it may be that depending on how it is implemented, it could do it, or D+M manage to use the DAC IC in conjunction with other parts, again, I don't know, you may ask other ASR members who has expertise in DAC IC implementation.

I have owned quite a few Marantz, Denon, now Anthem, if I want to play my DSD files, I would use my separates, or at least use my desktop DACs with the AVR/AVP's analog inputs, but then I am not keen on playing multichannel DSD at all anyway.

Regardless, it never stops me from wondering why D+M made their decision to go with the PCM5102A when there were so many alternatives at the time, including the popular ES9006, and even other TI DAC ICs.

 

[EWL5]

I know that, that's why I emphasized "implementation".
Keep in mind D+M has obviously tons more technical resources than the smaller boutique like AV devices manufacturers. Take for instance, the PCM5102A has SINAD spec of only about 92 dB, yet several Marantz/Denon AVR such as the C40,50,even 70, AVR-X4800H manage >93 dB as measured by Amir, with peak performance at the 95 dB range. So how did they implement those key parts would be my question, did they buy hand picked one that meets their specs, they did promise in the marketing info in the early days, that the substituted DAC ICs will have the same performance as the renowned AK4458 right, and to a large degree, they kept their promise.

The PCM5102A dac datasheet does not mention "DSD", but it also does not say it is not capable (D+M also has not been clear about "native DSD playback", nor does it really matter? So it may be that depending on how it is implemented, it could do it, or D+M manage to use the DAC IC in conjunction with other parts, again, I don't know, you may ask other ASR members who has expertise in DAC IC implementation.

I have owned quite a few Marantz, Denon, now Anthem, if I want to play my DSD files, I would use my separates, or at least use my desktop DACs with the AVR/AVP's analog inputs, but then I am not keen on playing multichannel DSD at all anyway.

Regardless, it never stops me from wondering why D+M made their decision to go with the PCM5102A when there were so many alternatives at the time, including the popular ES9006, and even other TI DAC ICs.

Splitting hairs but the datasheet says the PCM5102A can do -93dB THD. Were you looking at the PCM5101A (which is -92dB)?

 

[peng]

Splitting hairs but the datasheet says the PCM5102A can do -93dB THD. Were you looking at the PCM5101A (which is -92dB)?

I was going by memory, so 93 it is. Still that's just 1 chip, final output at the preout normally woild be lower. The older 3700/4700 had the akm chip with 106/107 SINAD, iirc, yet measured preput SINAD was about 95-97dB, so I am very impressed with D+M's design team who can achieve 87-92, peaked to 92-96 dB for the 3800/4800/C40 through 70.

And, still able to play DSD contents, even if not natively, with such a mediocre dac chip, amazing!!

 

[Miker 1102]

I know that, that's why I emphasized "implementation".
Keep in mind D+M has obviously tons more technical resources than the smaller boutique like AV devices manufacturers. Take for instance, the PCM5102A has SINAD spec of only about 92 dB, yet several Marantz/Denon AVR such as the C40,50,even 70, AVR-X4800H manage >93 dB as measured by Amir, with peak performance at the 95 dB range. So how did they implement those key parts would be my question, did they buy hand picked one that meets their specs, they did promise in the marketing info in the early days, that the substituted DAC ICs will have the same performance as the renowned AK4458 right, and to a large degree, they kept their promise.

The PCM5102A dac datasheet does not mention "DSD", but it also does not say it is not capable (D+M also has not been clear about "native DSD playback", nor does it really matter? So it may be that depending on how it is implemented, it could do it, or D+M manage to use the DAC IC in conjunction with other parts, again, I don't know, you may ask other ASR members who has expertise in DAC IC implementation.

I have owned quite a few Marantz, Denon, now Anthem, if I want to play my DSD files, I would use my separates, or at least use my desktop DACs with the AVR/AVP's analog inputs, but then I am not keen on playing multichannel DSD at all anyway.

Regardless, it never stops me from wondering why D+M made their decision to go with the PCM5102A when there were so many alternatives at the time, including the popular ES9006, and even other TI DAC ICs.

I agree. The 4800 seems very highly priced to use the 5012A dac. I got the r70 for the same price and it uses a higher end ess dac. I am sure there is an engineering reason I don't understand as I have to read a lot and study to understand the terminology used on asr.

 

[EWL5]

I agree. The 4800 seems very highly priced to use the 5012A dac. I got the r70 for the same price and it uses a higher end ess dac. I am sure there is an engineering reason I don't understand as I have to read a lot and study to understand the terminology used on asr.

Honestly, I think it was all AKM factory fire driven and TI gave Denon/Marantz a deal they couldn't refuse on the 5102As!

 

[Scytales]

Are there better sources for DSD other than the defunct SACD format?

I just want to point out as a matter of fact that SA-CD (Super Audio Compact Disc) is not a defunct format as of today: numerous new releases are still produced and this will most probably remain the case for a long time to come.

 

[EWL5]

I just want to point out as a matter of fact that SA-CD (Super Audio Compact Disc) is not a defunct format as of today: numerous new releases are still produced and this will most probably remain the case for a long time to come.

Limited releases may keep it alive but it's gotten no penetration and isn't helping sales of "universal players".

We have the most technologically advanced disc format in BD Audio (I own one) but if no one buys them, do they really "exist"? Streaming is the present and I can't seeing anything unseating that in the foreseeable future!

 

[Scytales]

Of course, but all that does not make an alive format a dead one, which was the only fact I intended to address.

 

[majkik74]

I have a question for Marantz c30 AVR receiver owners. Is there any other setting in Multi ch stereo, something like balance between front/rear speakers like Yamaha has with 9ch stereo? Because the calibration goes well with Marantz. The sound with all Dolby, Auro 3D is fine between the front and rear speakers, but when I suddenly switch to Multi ch Stereo, the rear speakers play louder and the front is very weak. Is there any setting for balance front/rear? My settings are MultiEQ xt32-Flat, Dynamic EQ-On, reference level offset-0db, Dynamic -Off. Thanks

 

[Miker 1102]

I have a question for Marantz c30 AVR receiver owners. Is there any other setting in Multi ch stereo, something like balance between front/rear speakers like Yamaha has with 9ch stereo? Because the calibration goes well with Marantz. The sound with all Dolby, Auro 3D is fine between the front and rear speakers, but when I suddenly switch to Multi ch Stereo, the rear speakers play louder and the front is very weak. Is there any setting for balance front/rear? My settings are MultiEQ xt32-Flat, Dynamic EQ-On, reference level offset-0db, Dynamic -Off. Thanks

I always trim the decibel levels on my Denon products but do not own thr 30. I think Auro does the best job. I always felt like multi channel was just an exact Echo with ehat you described as the back channels being to loud ans sounding like my parents old Chevy stereo with the 8 track.

 

[dobyblue]

I went with the Cinema 30 last November, my dealer had one demo unit (black) that had never been turned on, he sold it to me for the price of the C40. I couldn't have afforded it at retail otherwise. Very happy, wanted an AVR with four separate sub outs and was very close to going Denon but the aesthetic of the Cinema line is so much more appealing, the savings made it happen.

I have a question for Marantz c30 AVR receiver owners. Is there any other setting in Multi ch stereo, something like balance between front/rear speakers like Yamaha has with 9ch stereo? Because the calibration goes well with Marantz. The sound with all Dolby, Auro 3D is fine between the front and rear speakers, but when I suddenly switch to Multi ch Stereo, the rear speakers play louder and the front is very weak. Is there any setting for balance front/rear? My settings are MultiEQ xt32-Flat, Dynamic EQ-On, reference level offset-0db, Dynamic -Off. Thanks

I've found this with MULTI CH STEREO on every AVR I've owned over the last 20 or so years, all the way back to the Pioneer VSX-1014TX I had in 2004.

You could just slide the rears down a few dbs using the Marantz app which is super fast to do, but I no longer use that mode; AURO-3D or DOLBY SURROUND are much more naturally balanced to me.

 

[dobyblue]

Is it very different from the DVD-Audio version?

It's the same mix - I highly recommend getting the Blu-ray from Rhino though, it has the 2001 5.1 mix (found on the DVD-Audio and the SACD) as well as the new Atmos mix, which is much better balanced across the surround field to my ears. The refrains in the final section of The Chain have more space, really enjoying the Atmos mix.

 

[majkik74]

I have it faster via the OPTION /channel level adjust button on the remote control where I can make the front louder faster than the rear quieter. But why doesn't it at least remember it in every Dolby/Auro 3D/Multi ch stereo db speaker setting that when I switch from Dolby to Multi ch stereo, the speaker db setting is different. Every Input Setting in the Audio/Audyssey Menu remembers that, I read in the manual. It would be good if there was also something in the menu on the Yamaha rx-2080 where I regulate the front/rear in stereo 9CH. Yes, Dolby and especially Auro 3D sound more spatial, but multi ch stereo can be heard more sounds in each speaker, especially from 1khz-20khz with music. And all my speakers have a sensitivity of 93db. I use multi ch stereo more for music.

 

[Miker 1102]

I get what your saying. I raise the dB level of my rears and surrounds when using auro 3d audio. I find is does a better job spatially with the music than multichannel but wish it was a bit more. Still I can't belive some days how incredible a good master can sound on Auro-3D. Better than multi channel

 

[CCCC]

I have a question for Marantz c30 AVR receiver owners. Is there any other setting in Multi ch stereo, something like balance between front/rear speakers like Yamaha has with 9ch stereo? Because the calibration goes well with Marantz. The sound with all Dolby, Auro 3D is fine between the front and rear speakers, but when I suddenly switch to Multi ch Stereo, the rear speakers play louder and the front is very weak. Is there any setting for balance front/rear? My settings are MultiEQ xt32-Flat, Dynamic EQ-On, reference level offset-0db, Dynamic -Off. Thanks

I simply drecreased all channels by -7db except the front LR. As it is saved by input, is very convenient

 

[Miker 1102]

I know that, that's why I emphasized "implementation".
Keep in mind D+M has obviously tons more technical resources than the smaller boutique like AV devices manufacturers. Take for instance, the PCM5102A has SINAD spec of only about 92 dB, yet several Marantz/Denon AVR such as the C40,50,even 70, AVR-X4800H manage >93 dB as measured by Amir, with peak performance at the 95 dB range. So how did they implement those key parts would be my question, did they buy hand picked one that meets their specs, they did promise in the marketing info in the early days, that the substituted DAC ICs will have the same performance as the renowned AK4458 right, and to a large degree, they kept their promise.

The PCM5102A dac datasheet does not mention "DSD", but it also does not say it is not capable (D+M also has not been clear about "native DSD playback", nor does it really matter? So it may be that depending on how it is implemented, it could do it, or D+M manage to use the DAC IC in conjunction with other parts, again, I don't know, you may ask other ASR members who has expertise in DAC IC implementation.

I have owned quite a few Marantz, Denon, now Anthem, if I want to play my DSD files, I would use my separates, or at least use my desktop DACs with the AVR/AVP's analog inputs, but then I am not keen on playing multichannel DSD at all anyway.

Regardless, it never stops me from wondering why D+M made their decision to go with the PCM5102A when there were so many alternatives at the time, including the popular ES9006, and even other TI DAC ICs.

Agree. Especially on avrs like the 40 and 4800.