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Marantz AV7705 Review (AV Processor)

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Although I appreciate the review, I have to question how good we can hear, and at what point does SINAD not become relevant?

I posted this elsewhere today, but I did and unscientific a/B test yesterday, against one of the most transparent preamps measured here on ASR, and my 9 year old Marantz pre-pro. Yes my out-of-date bur brown 32/192 DACs were written off years ago.

On an XLR switcher, level matched between the two there was no difference, not even a little difference.

That being said, I want my next preamp to measure as good as it can, but I’m not convinced that I can hear the difference between middle of the pack, and 120 SINAD.

I also compared the top and D90s DAC’s on an XLR switcher, compared to the Marantz pre-pro I own, zero difference that I could detect.

I wouldn’t be afraid to buy this new Marantz product, although I am holding out for a different design.
 

bigguyca

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Or maybe it's an affront to some that all those alleged differences seem to mysteriously disappear when people aren't aware of what they are listening to.

You've changed the subject.

Where are all the valid double-blind tests? You are just speculating on the results without results. Your position without valid data is just a subjective as those who provide their subjective results.
 

Ralf Stocker

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Marantz: $2400 / 93 = $25.80 per connector!
AP: $30.000 / 37 = $810.80 per connector!
Can't be quality.
 

Spocko

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Although I appreciate the review, I have to question how good we can hear, and at what point does SINAD not become relevant?

I posted this elsewhere today, but I did and unscientific a/B test yesterday, against one of the most transparent preamps measured here on ASR, and my 9 year old Marantz pre-pro. Yes my out-of-date bur brown 32/192 DACs were written off years ago.

On an XLR switcher, level matched between the two there was no difference, not even a little difference.

That being said, I want my next preamp to measure as good as it can, but I’m not convinced that I can hear the difference between middle of the pack, and 120 SINAD.

I also compared the top and D90s DAC’s on an XLR switcher, compared to the Marantz pre-pro I own, zero difference that I could detect.

I wouldn’t be afraid to buy this new Marantz product, although I am holding out for a different design.
For the purposes of home cinema, high performing SINAD is not relevant and resources should be alloted to multi-sub bass management and speaker calibration. As long as the SINAD is high enough to avoid audible distortion, it's good to go.
 

YSC

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You told me that already… on another thread.

IMO it shouldnt be, and wouldn’t it make it that much more appealing than to have a better SINAD? Even if we can’t hear it… look what its done for Topping in 5 short years.

My stance is yes I would buy this, but i would like if it measured better. Is it good enough? Yes I'm sure it is.
well I would really say as in the other thread, I personally look at the price, design and features whether I want to have a product, then go check it's SINAD isn't broken or usually have significant channel imbalance or some functional problem to make me mad. If all those are cleared I will go after it
 

Spocko

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You told me that already… on another thread.

IMO it shouldnt be, and wouldn’t it make it that much more appealing than to have a better SINAD? Even if we can’t hear it… look what its done for Topping in 5 short years.

My stance is yes I would buy this, but i would like if it measured better. Is it good enough? Yes I'm sure it is.
Yes, but the response is for the benefit of others who may not have read that thread. I completely agree that it's the consumers perogative to reward excellent engineering, but given the realities of "designing to a budget", if you were to design a pre-pro that "only cost $3000", you would have to cut corners somewhere, and it's absolutely acceptable to cut high SINAD from these requirements.
 

Martin_320

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For the purposes of home cinema, high performing SINAD is not relevant and resources should be alloted to multi-sub bass management and speaker calibration. As long as the SINAD is high enough to avoid audible distortion, it's good to go.
Yes, these things you mention are all much more relevant to the sonic accuracy in the audible band -- and musical enjoyment.
And what's absolutely crucial for a preamp-processor is that its output's voltage/impedance range specs perfectly match the input to your power amp.
 

Martin_320

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I also compared the top and D90s DAC’s on an XLR switcher, compared to the Marantz pre-pro I own, zero difference that I could detect.
Playing the same CD, I did an A-B comparison of my Denon DVD player's analog-outputs into the Marantz AV7705's multi-ch analog inputs
. . . versus the Denon's SP-DIF co-axial digital-output into the Marantz's SP-DIF digital input.

I could tell no difference.
 

Avbahn

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Upgraded from Denon X3400 to Marantz AV7706 and have issue with emphasized sibilance that Denon did not have in the same system.
Have tested seemingly everything Audessey on/off, Tone control, GEQ but does not really cure the focus on sibilance. Otherwise sounds great and a big upgrade from Denon but highs ruins it.
Did not expect that as usually it is stated that Marantz has warmer sound.
For sources using streamers Atv4k and Shield Pro for speakers Genelec actives with using treble -2db and also have acoustic panels in room.
Only thing on top of prepro change was using XLR outputs directly. Previously used same XLR cables with XLR to RCA adapter cables.

Any recommendations to try before I give up on Marantz?
 

LTig

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Does sibilance depend on playback volume?
 

Avbahn

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Does sibilance depend on playback volume?
No it doesn’t change with volume.
Put back the Denon for sanity check and do notice the sibilance in same material (previously it did not stood out like it, blaming Marantz in surficing it for me ) but it is more rounded and not so harsh. Harshness of the sibilance is what bothers me. Not sure if Denon manages to mask it a little or Marantz has more emphasis in relevant areas but Marantz takes it step too far for me.
 

peng

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No it doesn’t change with volume.
Put back the Denon for sanity check and do notice the sibilance in same material (previously it did not stood out like it, blaming Marantz in surficing it for me ) but it is more rounded and not so harsh. Harshness of the sibilance is what bothers me. Not sure if Denon manages to mask it a little or Marantz has more emphasis in relevant areas but Marantz takes it step too far for me.

That is weird, as I have both Denon and Marantz and never experienced any difference of that sort. In my experience, such sibilance would be mostly, if not always related to the quality of the recording itself. Did you notice such excessive sibilance in female vocal only? Regardless, I hope you will continue to investigate the root cause and let us know your findings.
 
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Sal1950

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No it doesn’t change with volume.
Put back the Denon for sanity check and do notice the sibilance in same material (previously it did not stood out like it, blaming Marantz in surficing it for me ) but it is more rounded and not so harsh. Harshness of the sibilance is what bothers me. Not sure if Denon manages to mask it a little or Marantz has more emphasis in relevant areas but Marantz takes it step too far for me.
My thought is that there's not any real difference in the sound of the two AVR's, but more related to differences in the final FR due to Audyssey or some other response tuning.
 

LTig

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My thought is that there's not any real difference in the sound of the two AVR's, but more related to differences in the final FR due to Audyssey or some other response tuning.
Yep. When comparing AVPs one must disable all sound processings ( room EW aka Audissey, loudness aka Dynamic Volume, tone controls and do on) on both AVPs.
 

polmuaddib

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Yep. When comparing AVPs one must disable all sound processings ( room EW aka Audissey, loudness aka Dynamic Volume, tone controls and do on) on both AVPs.
And then record their output and compare digital files. Then you would have proof of difference or not.
Because it is hard to switch between them in time or setup both at the same time.
 

Sal1950

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Remember volume level much be matched within 0.25 db.
 

Avbahn

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That is weird, as I have both Denon and Marantz and never experienced any difference of that sort. In my experience, such sibilance would be mostly, if not always related to the quality of the recording itself. Did you notice such excessive sibilance in female vocal only? Regardless, I hope you will continue to investigate the root cause and let us know your findings.
After your comment of same sound tried to tune speakers with additional treble tilt -2db with some success taming sibilance with some success
but it made sound a little lifeless and surrounds don’t have same flexibility ruining surround field.
Otherwise mainly in female vocals yes but in lesser manner in male vocals as well.
 

Avbahn

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My thought is that there's not any real difference in the sound of the two AVR's, but more related to differences in the final FR due to Audyssey or some other response tuning.
Comparing this way:
- Audessey fully off, actually sounds better this way.
- Stereo mode
- Tone and GEQ off

So should be quite similar although of course not scientific comparison.
Connectivity difference is RCA vs XLR. Volume has been tuned for this but might have some variation based on measuring position and Radioshack meter.

Will come back what I figure out.
About Denon and Marantz being equal in sound is of course bad news for Marantz if true as cost is significantly higher for Marantz. Denon x3400 does not even have pre-amp mode like newer ones.
 
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peng

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Will come back what I figure out.
About Denon and Marantz being equal in sound is of course bad news for Marantz if true as cost is significantly higher for Marantz. Denon x3400 does not even have pre-amp mode like newer ones.

About 2-3 years ago, I actually compared the x3400h with my separates (Cambridge audio preamp and Parasound Halo A21), at my normal listening level they did sound the same to me. So I was impressed enough with it to return it and bought the x4400h to replace my Marantz AV8801 in my HT system. That's only because I wanted to try 7.1.4. I have been very happy with the results, and gave the Marantz away eventually, just a couple months ago. Again, at the AV7705 level, sibilance should not be an issue so I hope you can find the reason.
 

Dj7675

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Upgraded from Denon X3400 to Marantz AV7706 and have issue with emphasized sibilance that Denon did not have in the same system.
Have tested seemingly everything Audessey on/off, Tone control, GEQ but does not really cure the focus on sibilance. Otherwise sounds great and a big upgrade from Denon but highs ruins it.
Did not expect that as usually it is stated that Marantz has warmer sound.
For sources using streamers Atv4k and Shield Pro for speakers Genelec actives with using treble -2db and also have acoustic panels in room.
Only thing on top of prepro change was using XLR outputs directly. Previously used same XLR cables with XLR to RCA adapter cables.

Any recommendations to try before I give up on Marantz?
If Audyssey is off and you still have the issue.. not sure what it could be. Audyssey on, could be a poorly calibrated mic or a bad Audyssey measurement. If Audyssey measurements are showing low treble relative to your target curve, it will boost the treble when it shouldn’t. This is something that should be able to be figured out with REW and measurements to see what is going on.
Are you using the Audyssey app? If not, it is the best purchase you can make. Simply limit correction to somewhere around 200-500hz.
 
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