• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Marantz AV7705 Home Theater Processor Review

markus

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
646
Likes
653
Which is fine by me since it's you can't really EQ the room considering it's mostly not minimum phase behaviour. I don't like adding time distortion, it sounds very unnatural. Never understood why Dirac and other so called "room correction" softwares are so popular. You can EQ the speakers and you can reduce some low freqeuncy peaks, but you don't need any fancy correction for that. Some shelving filters and a feq PEQs is all that's needed.

Couple of reasons:

- Audiophools are well trained to operate on hearsay
- Audiophools like to fiddle with controls
- Most people don't have the expertise to make valid acoustic measurements
- Most people don't have the expertise to interpret these measurements
- Most people don't have the expertise to properly utilize "Some shelving filters and a feq PEQs"
- There's a ton of sh*tty speakers out there that benefit from room correction even when measured "through" the room
 

Martin_320

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2020
Messages
106
Likes
93
Amir, thanks for your very interesting analysis!
I own this same model of processor. A lot of my source material is in multichannel 5.1 24bit / 96kHz & 192kHz formats, fed into the Marantz as lossless LPCM via the HDMI input.
Output from my AV7705 (to a 5ch Rotel RMB1075 power amp) is via unbalanced (ie. non-XLR) interconnects.

Any chance you could please plot the frequency-response curves at these high sample rates ...

(a) in "Pure Direct";
(b) with bass-management enabled (ie speakers set to "small" and crossovers at 80Hz);
(c) with the manual Graphic-EQ* DSP function enabled (but with no bass-management)?
(*not the Audyssey -- which I already know downsamples to 48KHz).

I'd be really interested to see them!
Regards,
Martin.
 
Last edited:

North_Sky

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
2,741
Likes
1,553
Location
Kha Nada
As well as AudioControl, Arcam, Lexicon, Theta and Datasat. Seems Dirac becomes the industry standard

I believe Trinnov is also another standard, and ARC.
There might be couple more ...

Which is fine by me since it's you can't really EQ the room considering it's mostly not minimum phase behaviour. I don't like adding time distortion, it sounds very unnatural. Never understood why Dirac and other so called "room correction" softwares are so popular. You can EQ the speakers and you can reduce some low freqeuncy peaks, but you don't need any fancy correction for that. Some shelving filters and a feq PEQs is all that's needed.

They are popular because most people don't invest fully in acoustical room treatments for their living rooms which also served as their movie watching rooms.
And even dedicated treated home theater rooms from high end cinephiles audiophiles use additional Room calibration EQ to fine tune the surround sounds and low frequencies from multiple subwoofers.

Some owners of the Marantz AV7705 (and other pre-pros and AV receivers) use an external Dirac Live box or two to equalise their 8 to 16 speakers.

We're talking good measurements here from superior products with superior parts and superior analog and digital sections and superior power supplies for our music and movie listening in addition to pass thru video signals through the same (or) different type of connections.

With the Marantz AV7705 my best guess is that 99.9% of their owners use the HDMI connection to tunnel Audyssey MultEQ XT32 Room EQ and simple. I also think that the majority use it for both music listening and movie watching...Audyssey engaged.
It's not easy to sync the subs with the satellites for optimal synergistic performance, unless we are professionals with the tools to measure in our rooms.

So those products are popular for non-professionals who like simplicity in an automatic world...99.9% of the people buying them.

IMHO
 

Bjorn

Major Contributor
Audio Company
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
1,286
Likes
2,562
Location
Norway
They are popular because most people don't invest fully in acoustical room treatments for their living rooms which also served as their movie watching rooms.
I understand that many can't add acoustical treatment. However, you're indicating it can substitute acoustic treatment. But it can't. Like already mentioned; Most of the room isn't miniumum phase behaviour, hence you can't EQ it. So whether you can treat your room or not physically has no relation to this.
 

North_Sky

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
2,741
Likes
1,553
Location
Kha Nada
I understand that many can't add acoustical treatment. However, you're indicating it can substitute acoustic treatment. But it can't. Like already mentioned; Most of the room isn't miniumum phase behaviour, hence you can't EQ it. So whether you can treat your room or not physically has no relation to this.

I think I've said that for the majority of owners it's good enough without complicating their lives too much. Ultra high end audiophiles don't use DSP and Room EQ systems.
They use acoustic room treatments.

Movie aficionados do their best with what they buy, Marantz AV7705 here...with Audyssey top flavor...XT32 plus the app for manual fine tuning.

It's not like a $10,000-20,000 preamp.

Question: What would you recommend for a hobbyist in the say $1,000-3,000 price range? Someone simple, 99% of the normal population.
 

StevenEleven

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
581
Likes
1,188
Question: What would you recommend for a hobbyist in the say $1,000-3,000 price range? Someone simple, 99% of the normal population.

$300 Onkyo receiver. Pioneer speakers, two SVS subwoofers. Raspberry pi streamer. Oh, that would be me, wouldn’t it. Done.

Until @amirm finds a budget or mid-priced speaker that scores 8.0 or more in the “excluding LFX” preference ratings. Then I am off to Best Buy or pressing the “buy” button on Amazon in about ten seconds.

My room is pretty well acoustically treated—couches, upholstered chairs, curtains, pictures, rugs, books, just the stuff of life. My ears will take it from there.
 
Last edited:

vitalii427

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Messages
386
Likes
531
Location
Kiev, Ukraine
Question: What would you recommend for a hobbyist in the say $1,000-3,000 price range? Someone simple, 99% of the normal population.
MiniDSP discontinued nanoAVR and there’s rumors that they prepare something new. I have high hopes
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,368
Likes
234,386
Location
Seattle Area
Amir, thanks for your very interesting analysis!
I own this same model of processor. A lot of my source material is in multichannel 5.1 24bit / 96kHz & 192kHz formats, fed into the Marantz as lossless LPCM via the HDMI input.
Output from my AV7705 (to a 5ch Rotel RMB1075 power amp) is via unbalanced (ie. non-XLR) interconnects.

Any chance you could please plot the frequency-response curves at these high sample rates ...

(a) in "Pure Direct";
(b) with bass-management enabled (ie speakers set to "small" and crossovers at 80Hz);
(c) with the manual Graphic-EQ* DSP function enabled (but with no bass-management)?
(*not the Audyssey -- which I already know downsamples to 48KHz).

I'd be really interested to see them!
Regards,
Martin.
I am sorry but the unit was shipped back to its owner so I can't make any new measurements.
 

carlob

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
Messages
736
Likes
1,027
Location
Roma, Italy
They are popular because most people don't invest fully in acoustical room treatments for their living rooms which also served as their movie watching rooms.

Because if you do you'll end up listening to music in a living room that looks like shit, or that's my idea of a living room where you have panels everywhere, ugly columns of stuff in the corners etc. That reminds me of home theater nerds that paint their living rooms in BLACK.

Obviously that would be ok if you had a dedicated room, but not in your living please.
 

Frank Dernie

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
6,445
Likes
15,780
Location
Oxfordshire
Because if you do you'll end up listening to music in a living room that looks like shit, or that's my idea of a living room where you have panels everywhere, ugly columns of stuff in the corners etc. That reminds me of home theater nerds that paint their living rooms in BLACK.

Obviously that would be ok if you had a dedicated room, but not in your living please.
That is a matter of opinion (in my opinion :))
For the majority of my music listening life, I have been a music lover since a child, there was no electronic correction available for room or speaker placement defects.
I learned to position speakers to minimise their excitation of the main room modes and position my listening seat suitably.
This made our living room non-pretty to look at, perhaps, but my priority was not to get pictures of an uncomfortable but pretty space in an architectural magazine.
Over the last 50 years I have experimented with all sorts, from egg boxes on walls (as an impecunious student in the 1960s) to panels, absorbers and a DSPeaker antimode.
I have found an "untidy" lived-in looking room with soft furnishings, throws, bookcases, record and CD racks several nice Persian carpets, curtains (drapes in the US I think) to break up flat surfaces and speakers positioned to minimise the excitation of the main room modes (this last done by a professional who does it for a lot of big companies using MLSSA) has given me a comfortable convenient room to live in. Sometimes it is more untidy than others but it is always comfortable.
It isn't painted black though!
 

markus

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
646
Likes
653
I understand that many can't add acoustical treatment. However, you're indicating it can substitute acoustic treatment. But it can't. Like already mentioned; Most of the room isn't miniumum phase behaviour, hence you can't EQ it. So whether you can treat your room or not physically has no relation to this.

One of the worst and most audible room effects is "one note bass". It is a minimum phase phenomenon, it can be EQ'd, hence "it can substitute acoustic treatment". It's even way more practical than acoustical treatments.
 

LTig

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
5,760
Likes
9,442
Location
Europe
One of the worst and most audible room effects is "one note bass". It is a minimum phase phenomenon, it can be EQ'd, hence "it can substitute acoustic treatment". It's even way more practical than acoustical treatments.
... and it increases max SPL since the woofer sees reduced excursion.
 

North_Sky

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
2,741
Likes
1,553
Location
Kha Nada
The Marantz surround processor reviewed here ($2,200 US MSRP) sports Audyssey MultEQ XT32, Auro-3D, and a bunch of other features to make you control your movie experience and music enjoyment. Because music matters ...

Measurements also matter, and for people who are looking for good quality sound from an audio/video pre-pro there are other alternatives. It's up to us to find out ...

We sure are on a right track right here right now ...

The people from Japan who design this Marantz pre-pro and other products similar down and up the line and the AV receivers, what are their main priorities?
...Measurements? Good looking units with a unique pretty front face? A pletoria of features for sale? Mass market acceptance...affordability? A competitive AV product in a sea of featured fishes of all colors and species?

What are they selling us? Less than satisfying measurements in order to offer Auro-3D and Audyssey XT32 and a hublot? What can we get for the same money with better quality sound and enjoyment of our music listening and surround sound from our movies? Or, can we spend less and get more, or how much more or less for better performance in the measurements?

Where are our priorities of the products for sale that we buy?
Where are the priorities of the product manufacturers who are selling what we buy?

We're on the right track here, are the manufacturers on that same track?

As for putting this Marantz pre-pro in your living room (untrreated) where decor and comfort is @ the service of discussions and entertainment with family and friends and guests you invite for tea and cookies and pretzels and Christmas presents under the tree and with the chimney nearby above the fireplace where you put ypur OLED TV for watching the Grammys and the Oscars and Netflix and Disney+ in 4K with Dolby, measurements take a second seat behind the couch center and love seat @ the side and swing chair in the corner for Grandma or Grandpa.

Audyssey XT32 is best to be engaged, IMHO.
And not only in that cozy family living room but also in the dedicated family home theater room in the basement with dark grey painted walls with acoustical absorption and diffusion for optimal sound propagation and low frequencies transmission.

What else can you buy for the same money and have a more quality sound fun from movies and music? That's the measurement track we're on, that's the balance we make, that's the forum where we discover more than the surface of a pretty face and multitude of features for a price to sell.

There is more to it than the eyes looking beyond the horizon meeting with the land of the rising sun ... Japan.
About pre/pros made in America, Canada, China, Malaysia, Vietnam, Russia, ...?
 

North_Sky

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
2,741
Likes
1,553
Location
Kha Nada
Because if you do you'll end up listening to music in a living room that looks like shit, or that's my idea of a living room where you have panels everywhere, ugly columns of stuff in the corners etc. That reminds me of home theater nerds that paint their living rooms in BLACK.

Obviously that would be ok if you had a dedicated room, but not in your living please.

How many people buy the 7705 for a dedicated home theater room versus the rest?
And how many people listen to stereo music in a dedicated dark home theater room?
And how many people buy the 7705 strictly for movie sounds?

What can you get today for $2,200 that would measure splendidly, sports Dirac Live Room EQ, Auro-3D decoder, supports all hires audio codecs, easy to operate for the uninitiated, and make a disappearing act behind the removed veil of all electronics and mechanical loudspeakers? ...With close to zero distortion, zero noise, quasi absolute black darkness of purity silence.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,070
Likes
16,600
Location
Central Fl
How many people buy the 7705 for a dedicated home theater room versus the rest?
And how many people listen to stereo music in a dedicated dark home theater room?
And how many people buy the 7705 strictly for movie sounds?

What can you get today for $2,200 that would measure splendidly, sports Dirac Live Room EQ, Auro-3D decoder, supports all hires audio codecs, easy to operate for the uninitiated, and make a disappearing act behind the removed veil of all electronics and mechanical loudspeakers? ...With close to zero distortion, zero noise, quasi absolute black darkness of purity silence.

Bob, I haven't the slightest idea of the point your trying to make? Sounds like your just rambling on with no final conclusions to make.
Your falling back into your old habits of just filling webspace with no real contributions made.
What are you listening to now, please answer your own questions on the alternatives.
Have you actually heard any of these products in a well setup system?
I've owned 2 of the Marantz pre/pros, a 7701 that I sold to @Blumlein 88 , and a 7703 that composes the head of my current rig.
I'm not a hurt Schitt fanboy going on and on trying to support his choices, but we do have to settle into a real world position and think about the true audiblity of the measurement failures.. Will this pre/pro provide the SQ of a really well chosen 2 channel system with $5 figure speakers or better? No. But used in a system comprised of components in the same $ level, it will provide excellent SQ and impressive immersive reproduction of both stereo/multich music and movies. I just came back from the Tampa audio show where I listened to numerous $500K and up systems, when I came home I wasn't inspired to throw it all away. I am in the market to upgrade my speakers but can't see me replacing my 7703 unless it lets the smoke out.
 

Bjorn

Major Contributor
Audio Company
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
1,286
Likes
2,562
Location
Norway
One of the worst and most audible room effects is "one note bass". It is a minimum phase phenomenon, it can be EQ'd, hence "it can substitute acoustic treatment". It's even way more practical than acoustical treatments.
It can be a minimum phase behaviour but not necessarily. And I mentioned EQ for that earlier (low frequency peaks). However, there's no need for a full "room correction", which will actually be detrimental in several areas. The overall result of these softwares is generally very bad IMO. Better to get good measuring speakers, work with placement and separate subwoofer(s) and minimize some low freq. peaks if needed. Antimode works quite fine for the latter if there's a need for something simple.
 

Frank Dernie

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
6,445
Likes
15,780
Location
Oxfordshire
It can be a minimum phase behaviour but not necessarily. And I mentioned EQ for that earlier (low frequency peaks). However, there's no need for a full "room correction", which will actually be detrimental in several areas. The overall result of these softwares is generally very bad IMO. Better to get good measuring speakers, work with placement and separate subwoofer(s) and minimize some low freq. peaks if needed. Antimode works quite fine for the latter if there's a need for something simple.
This has been my experience.
I do see the benefit of cutting peaks in a room where speaker placement has been done for convenience/looks without acoustic considerations, ditto listening area, and it is certainly much, much easier and quicker and requires infinitely less skill but I have not been impressed. Yet.
 

Martin_320

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2020
Messages
106
Likes
93
Bob, I haven't the slightest idea of the point your trying to make? Sounds like your just rambling on with no final conclusions to make.
Your falling back into your old habits of just filling webspace with no real contributions made.
What are you listening to now, please answer your own questions on the alternatives.
Have you actually heard any of these products in a well setup system?
I've owned 2 of the Marantz pre/pros, a 7701 that I sold to @Blumlein 88 , and a 7703 that composes the head of my current rig.
I'm not a hurt Schitt fanboy going on and on trying to support his choices, but we do have to settle into a real world position and think about the true audiblity of the measurement failures.. Will this pre/pro provide the SQ of a really well chosen 2 channel system with $5 figure speakers or better? No. But used in a system comprised of components in the same $ level, it will provide excellent SQ and impressive immersive reproduction of both stereo/multich music and movies. I just came back from the Tampa audio show where I listened to numerous $500K and up systems, when I came home I wasn't inspired to throw it all away. I am in the market to upgrade my speakers but can't see me replacing my 7703 unless it lets the smoke out.

I'm on your line of thinking here.
I used to be in the 2-channel only camp: ie CD players hooked-up to an offboard DAC, then into a class-A amp, etc.
Then in the early 2000s I went multichannel + a large sub so I could play the lossless 24 bit / 96kHz/192kHz DVD-Audios (I have about 100 of these), followed some years later by Blu-ray hirez audio etc.
Then I collected hirez FLACs stored on a NAS and fed via Ethernet to my Dune media streamer then via HDMI to my pre-pro (currently the Marantz AV7705).
I have cousins and friends still with boutique 2-ch systems. But even when I put in a normal CD and upmix it with Dolby Surround in my system, the comment that usually comes back from them is “amazing”.
Maybe there is some measurable “noise” – but it can’t be heard.
Maybe there is some FR rolloff above 17kHz – but it can’t be heard.
Ps. In 2-channel pure-direct the Marantz still sounds as good, if not better than any dedicated 2-channel system I’ve ever owned. Admittedly the loudspeakers I have now are better than any I had previously.
Measurements are one thing. But the quality of the source music/recording at the start, and the quality of the speakers at the other end is far more important than whether the noise floor in the amp section is at -90dB versus -130dB.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,070
Likes
16,600
Location
Central Fl
Measurements are one thing. But the quality of the source music/recording at the start, and the quality of the speakers at the other end is far more important than whether the noise floor in the amp section is at -90dB versus -130dB.
AMEN to that! ;)
 

Dj7675

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
2,116
Likes
2,781
I don't usually run this test with DACs since they are usually very flat to 20 kHz. Not here. That slow filter truncates your audible high frequencies while taking its time to filter out the ultrasonic components. A failed grade if I ever saw one. I suspect the same is true of AV8805 as well.
@amirm Not knowing nearly enough about such things... does this filter design have an affect on the overall SINAD?
 
Top Bottom