Marantz AV7705 Home Theater Processor Review

[mhardy6647]

...More time and effort has been spent lining up gold connectors on the back than to make sure some basic performance targets are achieved. I mean how hard is it to get a 20 kHz flat response? There is no design hygiene whatsoever as indicated in the jitter spectrum.

design hygiene. I like this phrase!
I do believe I am gonna add it to my armamentarium.

 

[Sancus]

There are zero chances licensed home theater technologies (Dolby Vision, Atmos Decoder, etc...) will arrive at PC. Too flexible, to easy to break protections.

In fact, I still wonder who was the "brilliant mind" who let Blu-ray hardware to arrive to PCs about 15 years ago in the same version than domestic Blu-ray players. With the DVD prior experiences I still don't understand that decision, although not my business.

Don't get me wrong, I love HTPCs, I've been configuring and using those for about 14 years. The industry have learnt the lesson and the legal streaming distribution will rule next decades.

Most streaming protections have been broken just as easily, downloads of raw data from them are common on the high seas. Any distribution strategy that relies on DRM is doomed to failure in the long term, it's just not a practical idea.

The main reason streaming services are more popular than piracy is simple: It was never about cost, it was always about convenience, and convenience trumps cost(within reason) for most people. Streaming services are the most convenient.

 

[digicidal]

There are zero chances licensed home theater technologies (Dolby Vision, Atmos Decoder, etc...) will arrive at PC. Too flexible, to easy to break protections.

In fact, I still wonder who was the "brilliant mind" who let Blu-ray hardware to arrive to PCs about 15 years ago in the same version than domestic Blu-ray players. With the DVD prior experiences I still don't understand that decision, although not my business.

Don't get me wrong, I love HTPCs, I've been configuring and using those for about 14 years. The industry have learnt the lesson and the legal streaming distribution will rule next decades.

Well, some in the industry have... the rest are still working hard to come up with more proprietary obstacles to entry/use.

Yet another way the corporatocracy protects us simple minded consumers from the dangers of free choice. At least the EU is a little better about drawing a line in the sand over their abuses of privacy and the most egregious violations of antitrust legislation... but only a little better. Maybe if more time was spent producing truly exceptional consumer products and/or entertainment content... they'd have less need to fiercely protect the rest of the crap they dump out from piracy.

It will be interesting to see if any studios not currently involved principally in streaming content are still around in another decade. I could easily see the Paramounts, Universals, etc. of the future being regarded like they did Netflix, Hulu and Amazon just a decade ago. Also interesting that there's still such a commitment to hardware controls like DHCP and encryption schemes, in a market that has almost entirely turned away from consuming physical media - for music and movies.

 

[peng]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Marantz AV7705 UHD Home Theater Audio Video Processor. It is on kind loan from a member. The AV7705 costs US $2,200 from Amazon with free shipping. From what I have read this unit is current until October of 2020.

Among AVRs, using the lower 2.4 value of SINAD we get:

View attachment 49278

That is not an apple to apple comparison though unless the AVRs were measured at 1.2 V output. 1.2 V unbalanced is equivalent to 2.4 V XLR balanced, at least that's the case for Marantz products. So the chart is actually biased in favor of the 7705 vs AVRs that were measured at 2.0 V such as the case for the AVR-X3400H and RX-A1080

That slow filter truncates your audible high frequencies

What does that really mean? 2.5 dB down at the low 20 kHz, how the heck is that possible? I thought even the AVR-X3400H measured ruler flat to 20 kHz, and it has the same pre-amp/vol control IC and DAC as the AV7705, the only difference is the HDAM buffer that the Denon does not have, wonder if the HDAM module actually degrade the signal?

Did you measure the FR using analog signal input?

 

[Blumlein 88]

This unit seems to be broken - by design. I'm currently preparing a review of the Marantz AV7701 (prepreprepredecessor of the 7705) and that one has no problems to keep THD in spec (0.008% / -82 dB) up to the maximum level of 12V rms @ XLR out and 0 dBFS. Actually THD level is always way below spec, usually around 0.002% / -92 dB or better. I don't want to cludder this review with graphs from another unit so I hide them behind a spoiler.

Spoiler

Input: Coax SPDIF 1 kHz 192 kHz / 24 bit
Output: XLR, with 12 Vrms at Volume = 91.5 and 0 dBFS input

1. THD+N measured versus volume with 0 dBFS input

As one can see THD gets better with volume and not worse.

View attachment 49298

2.THD+N measured versus dBFS at Volume 91

One can see that the sweet spot of the DAC is -4 to -5 dBFS. And we see a THD hump between -25 dBFS and -5 dBFS.

View attachment 49299

Somehow Marantz has been able to deteriorate the output capability of the XLR outputs between the AV7701 and 7705. May rise the second hand price of my AV7701.

Well, will be nice to see your results on the 7701 compared to result I obtained on the same unit.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/marantz-avr-7701-dac-measurements.3485/

 

[amirm]

What does that really mean? 2.5 dB down at the low 20 kHz, how the heck is that possible? I thought even the AVR-X3400H measured ruler flat to 20 kHz, and it has the same pre-amp/vol control IC and DAC as the AV7705, the only difference is the HDAM buffer that the Denon does not have, wonder if the HDAM module actually degrade the signal?

Did you measure the FR using analog signal input?

Of course not. It is the way that slow AKM DAC slow filter works. Here is the spec:

As you see, it is supposed to be down 3 dB at 18.2 kHz which is more or less what I showed.

These guys have made a choice to force this slow filter onto their customers. Now, if they were proud of it and documented it as such it would be one thing. But they are not. They just say their engineers in Japan think this sounds better.

 

[Gedeon]

Does it mean that if I can't hear above 18khz I wouldn't realize anything different from other filter options ?

 

[StevenEleven]

I've had the same dream for decades. I wonder what the obstacles are - technology is certainly not one of them.

The obstacle would seem to be lack of motivation?

Does it mean that if I can't hear above 18khz I wouldn't realize anything different from other filter options ?

From the review measurements it looks like it starts rolling off slowly at 12-13 kHz (hard for me to judge), for whatever reason. I’d guess probably not audible for the great majority of people under real-world conditions, but pushing it.

 

[vkvedam]

I can imagine how my SR6012 fares

May be Arcam's the only decent one in this category

 

[Gedeon]

I can imagine how my SR6012 fares

May be Arcam's the only decent one in this category

The Marantz 6012 is the AVR I own. Pretty similar to the Denon 3500 (already reviewed here). And you can see that with 1.2volt is "decent", around 95dbs when talking about line-out/rca. We can forget we are talking about a machine which is an 9 channel amp, and hdmi switch, a whole set of connections, a surround decoder, a streamer, and it also has a pretty effective room correction IMO. And 95dbs (from my point of view) is well beyond any audible issue. I'm pretty sure that unbalanced output quality is pretty similar (6012, 3500, 7705)

Its main "weakness" is the power-amp section (talking about the 6012) if you need to feed 6ohms/90dbs or more demanding speakers. Just add a multichannel power amp and problem solved.

There are better machines out there ? Sure ! .... cheaper and better with all those functions and convenience? .... not so sure (talking about SR6012 and Denon 3500)

 

[SDX-LV]

Talking about the depressing state of modern "mass market" AV processors, any thoughts about this thing:
Denon Pro DN-700AVP https://www.denonpro.com/index.php/products/view3/dn-700avp ?

It certainly is stripped of many features, but then again it costs half as much and perhaps has even better audio outputs? For someone with no more than 7.1 system it could be a great deal, then again there is Emotiva MC-700...

 

[adc]

Just thought I'd offer a gripe about Marantz that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere, and which may be out of scope for a purely performance-related engineering evaluation.

Until a year ago, I owned an NR1504, which was good enough for my ears at the low-ish volumes I tend to use. It had a lot of annoying quirks, but the one I found inexcusable was the behavior of its "physical" volume control. (I put that in quotes because it's technically a tactile interface, but like everything else these days, is obviously a drive-by-wire control.)

The problem is that the amount of increase or decrease of the volume was non-linearly related to the rate of rotation of the knob. The faster you turn the knob, the higher the rate of change per degree of rotation of the knob. What would happen is that I would crank and crank and crank and crank, trying to go from 35 to 50 or so; get tired of cranking and crank a little faster, and BLAM, the volume would rocket to 75. This was beyond infuriating. They managed to take the simplest, most universal control on a piece of audio equipment and turn it into an exercise in frustration.

A universal tenet of good interface engineering, regardless of domain, is predictability. That thing made me so damned mad that I wouldn't have cared if it performed like a Benchmark. I sent it to Goodwill and replaced it with an entry-level Yamaha that just does what it's told, predictably.

 

[SMc]

The problem is that the amount of increase or decrease of the volume was non-linearly related to the rate of rotation of the knob. The faster you turn the knob, the higher the rate of change per degree of rotation of the knob. What would happen is that I would crank and crank and crank and crank, trying to go from 35 to 50 or so; get tired of cranking and crank a little faster, and BLAM, the volume would rocket to 75.

Can confirm (NR 1402), but it doesn’t bother me.

 

[Rick Sykora]

ASR saves me again. I almost bought this. It is part of a current Outlaw Audio bundle...

https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/promospecial.html

Thanks Amir!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Just thought I'd offer a gripe about Marantz that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere, and which may be out of scope for a purely performance-related engineering evaluation.

Until a year ago, I owned an NR1504, which was good enough for my ears at the low-ish volumes I tend to use. It had a lot of annoying quirks, but the one I found inexcusable was the behavior of its "physical" volume control. (I put that in quotes because it's technically a tactile interface, but like everything else these days, is obviously a drive-by-wire control.)

The problem is that the amount of increase or decrease of the volume was non-linearly related to the rate of rotation of the knob. The faster you turn the knob, the higher the rate of change per degree of rotation of the knob. What would happen is that I would crank and crank and crank and crank, trying to go from 35 to 50 or so; get tired of cranking and crank a little faster, and BLAM, the volume would rocket to 75. This was beyond infuriating. They managed to take the simplest, most universal control on a piece of audio equipment and turn it into an exercise in frustration.

A universal tenet of good interface engineering, regardless of domain, is predictability. That thing made me so damned mad that I wouldn't have cared if it performed like a Benchmark. I sent it to Goodwill and replaced it with an entry-level Yamaha that just does what it's told, predictably.

I've seen this on plenty of gear. Never had it bother me though some get the steps between rates better than others.

 

[J-Sine]

Of course not. It is the way that slow AKM DAC slow filter works. Here is the spec:

View attachment 49389

As you see, it is supposed to be down 3 dB at 18.2 kHz which is more or less what I showed.

These guys have made a choice to force this slow filter onto their customers. Now, if they were proud of it and documented it as such it would be one thing. But they are not. They just say their engineers in Japan think this sounds better.

--------------------

Sorry to just jump in with first new post here as I have been following for a few months the EPIC work of amirm's testing where facts are facts versus alternative folklore in audiophile historic hearsay.

In regards to filters with DAC'S: Most Modern DAC'S have firmware "headers" to configure their built-in filter outputs(Typically 5 or so.) on the silicone chip among other basic configurations. It is generally up to the engineer to decide which is best. That said, it is EXTREMELY easy to configure which filter is chosen, no different than selecting which sample rate is chosen etc. Yet few manufactures leave it in the hands of the user. "Slow roll-off" might be the default but either way it is likely the worse choice with its -3db at 18.2khz roll off. This could be easily fixed by firmware by adding another page to select DAC output filter in the interface.
After seeing the tests results, I doubt it will ever be as Denon/Marantz clearly do not care about sound quality priority as AMIRM succintly points out..

I did however have lust for the the AV7705 and AV8805(especially with the akm4490's) XLR types of units and settled for the Denon AVR-x4400h expecting some compromise. Apparently not. The whole product line is destined for mediocrity.

The only truly redeeming virtue of Denons/Marantz line is the AURO 3d processing. I have mine setup in 9.2 with JBL constant directivity speakers. I prefer the AURO sound speaker configuration to the ATMOS config because you can use the AURO config for both. I get better sound location ability at home then I get at my local Flagship AMC "DOLBY CINEMA" theater.(family subjective opinion) With the Denon I don't use audyssey except for time alignment. (no eq) I also only use 1 mic location instead of multiple multiple mic locations but I measure precise exact center from mains and separation at ear level. (perfect triangle) Here's a link regarding why a single mic setup:
https://www.hometheatershack.com/th...c-position-for-audyssey-or-dirac-live.118706/

After frustration and seeing the https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3500h-avr-review.10053/ x3500h review I wound up digging out my Yamaha RXV-2800 and using it to power the mains via RCA's from my denon and I now use the yamaha for stereo playback. Downside it is twice as much heat at idle in room. All of amirs tests of various Denons has proved what my ears hear. The Denon x4400h has always been MEH with likely a 70-80ish sinad. My guess is the RXV-2800 is closer to the high 90's sinad. It does however subjectively improve the SQ. It has true analog multichannel inputs and volume control.

So it looks like the future of Home theater is doomed for a long while as we must compromise Sound quality for CODEC capability. Licensing and DRM is really taking its tolls on the masses and we are heading backwards with innovation. Don't even get me started on analog inputs being AD sampled for playback. This makes most if not all recent modern receivers throwaways.

Sadly we all need 2 systems now. 1 for home theater/media and another for stereo playback. Fortunately it looks like 10-15 year old stuff will do the job for now for stereo. Just add a topping DAC or similar and yer golden.

Everyone's dream is a 115db+ sinad multi-channel balanced AKM4493 based or similar DAC with configurable output filters and ATMOS/AURO ability. Sadly the DENON 7705/8805 could have been done so for only a few dollars more in BOM with some good old fashioned engineering effort as many have stated in this thread. Looks like they went copy and paste engineering instead.

Thanks again AMIR and those sending in gear to be tested. Hopefully I'll send some gear sometime soon.

 

[Todesengel]

What’s really interesting to me how good or bad became Classé with its new Delta series under Sound United ownership.

Classe at least includes bandwidth in their specification THD+N measurements (both 500kHz and 90kHz). They also include a SMPTE 4:1 IMD spec.

https://www.classeaudio.com/products/delta-mono/

I am biased though, I just bought mine yesterday

 

[leftside]

All these pre-pros are terrible for music. I have a McIntosh MX121 and the DAC inside it is terrible. The boomy bass can initially sound impressive, until you connect a good DAC to it and run the MX121 in Pure Direct mode. The MX121 is good for movies though.

 

[Sal1950]

All these pre-pros are terrible for music. I have a McIntosh MX121 and the DAC inside it is terrible. The boomy bass can initially sound impressive, until you connect a good DAC to it and run the MX121 in Pure Direct mode. The MX121 is good for movies though.

So you believe a poor DAC implementation is causing you boomy bass?
Please explain how that occurs?

 

[restorer-john]

design hygiene. I like this phrase!

I actually like it too. Add it to design language and maybe a new one "design narrative" and all bases will be covered.