Marantz AV20 13.4 Channel AVP Discussion

[masterhw]

Audioholics overview, seems that they were able to independently test and corroborate Marantz’s performance figures. for the AMP 20 anyway. also confirmed the ICEPOWER based module. https://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp-processor-reviews/marantz-av-20-amp-20

 

[ryanosaur]

Audioholics overview, seems that they were able to independently test and corroborate Marantz’s performance figures. for the AMP 20 anyway. also confirmed the ICEPOWER based module. https://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp-processor-reviews/marantz-av-20-amp-20

I didn't get that Gene had benched the Amp20. He has done extensive testing of the Amp10, however, and is suggesting that the Amp20 should perform as good as the Amp10 based on the fact it is using the same modules: frankly a reasonable assumption at this stage.

 

[ryanosaur]

Side note. Gene has a request out for confirmation of which DACs were used in the AV20. I haven't seen this info yet anywhere I've looked. Some have said the same ESS as in the AV10, but also has been suggested they may be AKM.

Anybody know?

 

[darth]

Side note. Gene has a request out for confirmation of which DACs were used in the AV20. I haven't seen this info yet anywhere I've looked. Some have said the same ESS as in the AV10, but also has been suggested they may be AKM.

Anybody know?

Per this thread https://www.avsforum.com/posts/64007312/
ESS ES9018K2M

 

[ryanosaur]

^
Yes, that's the one I've seen mentioned most often; makes the most sense too.

 

[Vacceo]

I didn't get that Gene had benched the Amp20. He has done extensive testing of the Amp10, however, and is suggesting that the Amp20 should perform as good as the Amp10 based on the fact it is using the same modules: frankly a reasonable assumption at this stage.

It seems that both devices are basically the same but in less channels. Which is not a bad thing at all, to be honest.

 

[ryanosaur]

Gene posted confirmation from Marantz & co that DACs are the same as AV10.

Main difference seems to be in improved processing capabilities. Another difference is in a slightly lighter weight chassis.

 

[masterhw]

A minor improvement to the HDMI board mentioned in the webinar means support for AMD FreeSync (passthrough, I'm assuming). I think the 2023-newer AVR/AVPs already have VRR support, so I'm not sure how much this really matters. But in case it does to someone out there, the AV20 has it.

 

[Vacceo]

A minor improvement to the HDMI board mentioned in the webinar means support for AMD FreeSync (passthrough, I'm assuming). I think the 2023-newer AVR/AVPs already have VRR support, so I'm not sure how much this really matters. But in case it does to someone out there, the AV20 has it.

I do use an AMD GPU that uses FreeSync. If you use a PC to play games, this is great news.

 

[Oddball]

Gene posted confirmation from Marantz & co that DACs are the same as AV10.

Main difference seems to be in improved processing capabilities. Another difference is in a slightly lighter weight chassis.

Do we know what DSP chip is AV-20 using? I could find reference to "dual core" but not the model. While better DSP is always better, not sure if Marantz would do separate ART implementation for AV-20 as opposed to rest of the gear with "lower" processing capability. But would not be the first time to be wrong...

 

[ryanosaur]

Do we know what DSP chip is AV-20 using? I could find reference to "dual core" but not the model. While better DSP is always better, not sure if Marantz would do separate ART implementation for AV-20 as opposed to rest of the gear with "lower" processing capability. But would not be the first time to be wrong...

From the AH preview article:

The new model has a “bigger brain,” according to Sound United’s Global Director of Training, Phil Jones.

Under the hood, the AV 20 deploys the latest and most powerful Analog Devices SHARC dual-core DSP chipset, coupled to state-of-the-art 32-bit two-channel DACs with dedicated jitter reduction. (Marantz has not yet shared which DAC chips are utilized, but both the AV 10 and the Cinema 30 use ESS Sabre DACs.)

Also heard same from an authorized dealer.

 

[Oddball]

Thanks - that would be a logical move. But given that AV-20 is of the same series as the rest of D&M line-up since 2022, DSP power might not really make such a big difference as I would imagine they would not be doing custom firmware for just that unit.

 

[masterhw]

Some additional info in here

its mostly marketing, only recommend if you're curious or considering purchase. random tidbits I got from jumping through:

• DSP chip is a SHARC+ 2,000 MIPS 1GHz dual-core compared to older gen 2x 450MHz dual-core (1,600 MIPS). This is almost certainly the ADSP-21593, which I believe is already in 2023-newer D&M products. I think the gen before this was 2x ADSP-21489 or 21487. They explicitly mention ART was contributing to this upgrade, but in the grand scheme this is a pretty mild change (+20% computational headroom).
  • If they continue to mention the upgraded DSP chip despite it not really being new to this generation, my interpretation is that this is the minimum they could get ART working on and it will not come to older 1600 MIPS products. I can't think of why else they would bother showing off the DSP specs.
• AV 20 is 2-layer PCB to the AV 10's 4-layer
• AMD FreeSync support mentioned due to a mild update to HDMI board
• Marantz AV separates' HDAM design is slightly different to the AVRs which put all the channels on the same board due to space constraints
• AMP 20 using Marantz licensed, customized, and manufactured ICE power design (confirmed)
• AV 20 gets analog video inputs, they had the space

 

[EWL5]

Some additional info in here

its mostly marketing, only recommend if you're curious or considering purchase. random tidbits I got from jumping through:

• DSP chip is a SHARC+ 2,000 MIPS 1GHz dual-core compared to older gen 2x 450MHz dual-core (1,600 MIPS). This is almost certainly the ADSP-21593, which I believe is already in 2023-newer D&M products. I think the gen before this was 2x ADSP-21489 or 21487. They explicitly mention ART was contributing to this upgrade, but in the grand scheme this is a pretty mild change (+20% computational headroom).
  • If they continue to mention the upgraded DSP chip despite it not really being new to this generation, my interpretation is that this is the minimum they could get ART working on and it will not come to older 1600 MIPS products. I can't think of why else they would bother showing off the DSP specs.
• AV 20 is 2-layer PCB to the AV 10's 4-layer
• AMD FreeSync support mentioned due to a mild update to HDMI board
• Marantz AV separates' HDAM design is slightly different to the AVRs which put all the channels on the same board due to space constraints
• AMP 20 using Marantz licensed, customized, and manufactured ICE power design (confirmed)
• AV 20 gets analog video inputs, they had the space

Yeah, that SHARC chip is already in my 3800! Anyone know what the Dirac-enabled PAC receivers (RZ50, RZ70, etc.) use for DSP?

 

[pogo]

If these DSPs are capable of BC, they will also be capable of ART.
The Onkyo Icon P-80 also gets ART

 

[Oddball]

Some additional info in here

its mostly marketing, only recommend if you're curious or considering purchase. random tidbits I got from jumping through:

• DSP chip is a SHARC+ 2,000 MIPS 1GHz dual-core compared to older gen 2x 450MHz dual-core (1,600 MIPS). This is almost certainly the ADSP-21593, which I believe is already in 2023-newer D&M products. I think the gen before this was 2x ADSP-21489 or 21487. They explicitly mention ART was contributing to this upgrade, but in the grand scheme this is a pretty mild change (+20% computational headroom).
  • If they continue to mention the upgraded DSP chip despite it not really being new to this generation, my interpretation is that this is the minimum they could get ART working on and it will not come to older 1600 MIPS products. I can't think of why else they would bother showing off the DSP specs.
• AV 20 is 2-layer PCB to the AV 10's 4-layer
• AMD FreeSync support mentioned due to a mild update to HDMI board
• Marantz AV separates' HDAM design is slightly different to the AVRs which put all the channels on the same board due to space constraints
• AMP 20 using Marantz licensed, customized, and manufactured ICE power design (confirmed)
• AV 20 gets analog video inputs, they had the space

Thanks for the info - much appreciated.

Interesting changes and seems like quite a bit of them. I wonder what of it all mostly contributed to AV-20's better SINAD. More of academic question as Elves have apparently left these shores long time ago and us humans struggle to hit 60-70dB SINAD recognition in Kippel tests.

 

[ryanosaur]

Well... I'll find out about all of this in about 2-3 weeks. Just ordered one through a dealer I know.

 

[Vacceo]

Thanks for the info - much appreciated.

Interesting changes and seems like quite a bit of them. I wonder what of it all mostly contributed to AV-20's better SINAD. More of academic question as Elves have apparently left these shores long time ago and us humans struggle to hit 60-70dB SINAD recognition in Kippel tests.

At 107 dB on the 10, it becomes mostly accademic. For the Amp20, if it reaches the 100, we´re also talking accademic differences.

 

[Oddball]

It is still a good sign if AV-20 reaches 110dB SINAD. Shows engineering excellence and hopefully pushes Trinnov and Storm to up their game. These are expensive toys and they should perform beyond a shadow of a doubt. Marantz gaining 10dB of SINAD over the competition would be a good wake up call for them.

 

[darth]

AV30 also in the pipeline per this video @ 7:43