Marantz AV20 13.4 Channel AVP Discussion

[Rockman2]

If you're looking at stuff that costs more than $2k, you're better off getting something that can do Dirac ART now or wait for the next gen Onkyos that can do ART (possibly 2027). $2k is certainly not chump change in the AVR world.

Yes, The current versions of the Onkyo apparently can't use ART. However the Denon and Marantz units apparently can use it. If you go the the Dirac site under art and select equipment it lists most of the current models like the 4800, 6800 and so on. If the 4900 gets a good DAC it may be a good upgrade. I do not have enough experience to understand stand the sound benefit of the Higher quality DAC's with the Higher sinad. I know they sound better from doing a lot of reading but how much? I know this is also some what subjective. But trying to get the best bang for the buck. I would like better sound from the setup I currently have if possible. This is why I was looking at a better AVR if that may improve the sound then later upgrade the front 3. Looking at 7-9,000 on the new towers and up to 3,000 on the center. So I want an AVR that will support these speakers when I upgrade them. Thanks

 

[Rockman2]

I am almost sure the RZ70 has the very good ES9026Pro DAC IC, SINAD spec: 110 dB, that's a touch better than the AK4458 in the early SR8015 models, but much better than the PCM1502A in the SR8015 manufactured months after the AKM factory fire. I would think that the AVR-X6800H, if you need 13 channels not including subs or AV30 if you only need 11 channels with external power amp(s) are better choices than the RZ70, that imo is too big and heavy and is only of benefit if you are not going to use external power amps at all. The AVR-X4900H might be a great choice if you use external power amp for the LCR and the AVR amps for the other channels, assuming the X3900H measures as good as the AVR-X6800H and Cinema 30.

I have an unrelated question, I had a ground loop hum in my right front channel. I got rid of most of it by connecting the amp and AVR chassis with a copper wire. Would it have also gone away if I had used an RCA to XLR cable. The 4800 only has RCA output and the ATI amp has both RCA and XLR inputs. Would it possibly help to do both a combo cable and a ground wire. Sorry for so many questions. Thanks

 

[killdozzer]

Just for the chits and giggles, it's funny how with 4 ohm impedance one channel gives you 200w and the other gives you 400.

 

[peng]

I have an unrelated question, I had a ground loop hum in my right front channel. I got rid of most of it by connecting the amp and AVR chassis with a copper wire.

In my experience, connecting such a wire rarely work, if it worked for you then consider yourself lucky that you just happen to have the conditions for that to work.

Would it have also gone away if I had used an RCA to XLR cable. The 4800 only has RCA output and the ATI amp has both RCA and XLR inputs. Would it possibly help to do both a combo cable and a ground wire. Sorry for so many questions. Thanks

In theory, that should work, at least to a large extent, but you must buy the cable that is wired in accordance with good practice such as what Hypex had written about and posted on ASR many times (you can do a search, or I could do it, time permitting).

 

[EWL5]

In theory, that should work, at least to a large extent, but you must buy the cable that is wired in accordance with good practice such as what Hypex had written about and posted on ASR many times (you can do a search, or I could do it, time permitting).

I'm not an EE but something tells me a simple RCA to XLR conversion wouldn't get rid of the hum. When connecting devices that are unbalanced (RCA) vs balanced (XLR), doesn't the lowest common denominator win out (i.e. unbalanced)?

 

[peng]

I'm not an EE but something tells me a simple RCA to XLR conversion wouldn't get rid of the hum. When connecting devices that are unbalanced (RCA) vs balanced (XLR), doesn't the lowest common denominator win out (i.e. unbalanced)?

That is only partially true, Hypex explained quite clearly that a properly wired RCA to XLR cable will give almost the same benefits as the balanced XLR to XLR one. No need to be an EE to understand his explanation. You just have to read that article to know the reasons behind.

 

[RichB]

That is only partially true, Hypex explained quite clearly that a properly wired RCA to XLR cable will give almost the same benefits as the balanced XLR to XLR one. No need to be an EE to understand his explanation. You just have to read that article to know the reasons behind.

If the Hypex implementation has a balanced interface, then it can cancel some noise.
If there is a balanced (XLR) interface, it does no harm using them (in most cases Parasound excluded).
They also lock, which is nice.

- Rich

 

[Sal1950]

They also lock, which is nice.

That's the part I like.

 

[peng]

If the Hypex implementation has a balanced interface, then it can cancel some noise.
If there is a balanced (XLR) interface, it does no harm using them (in most cases Parasound excluded).
They also lock, which is nice.

- Rich

I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing. My point is more about @Rockman2 and @EWL5 's posts.

Anyway, it didn't take too long to find the post I was thinking so it is again:

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

If worlds best is expensive and you are okay with Amazon, try Suanqi brand in the US. I thought they were better/nicer than the monoprice. No pinout I can find either on Amazon or google search. So no guarantee they meet Hypex recommended pinout either.

www.audiosciencereview.com

In the linked article in that post, note what was stated as below:

The input cable included with the module is a high-quality shielded twisted-pair (microphone) cable. By convention the input connector is a female XLR. How this benefits systems that already use balanced connections is obvious. Importantly though, it benefits unbalanced setups almost equally.

And it is easy to agree, if one reads the explanation, it doesn't take an EE to understand why it would work "almost equally..."

 

[EWL5]

That is only partially true, Hypex explained quite clearly that a properly wired RCA to XLR cable will give almost the same benefits as the balanced XLR to XLR one. No need to be an EE to understand his explanation. You just have to read that article to know the reasons behind.

So how much does this special Hypex cable cost?

 

[peng]

So how much does this special Hypex cable cost?

Hypex apparently does sell one, that I cannot afford and cannot justify the high cost either.

Monoprice has a short one that costs less than $20 when I bought them, Ghentaudio’s are probably cheaper but there will be shipping and likely Tariff on top. March Audio and Benchmark have the expensive ones.

Monoprice ones worked well for me but theirs did not follow Hypex guidelines 100% as they have an extra connection point, but that could be cut easily if it caused trouble. To me, one can try those first as they are still cheap and return is easy if you buy from Amazon.

 

[dlaloum]

I am in no rush, just started looking at upgrading. Also looking at Onkyo. I had a top level TXNR around 2013 can't remember the number maybe 1010. Then went to the SR8015 but the guy who bought my home bought the entire audio set up I had at the time. Then I put this system together. Seems the RZ70 has gotten good reviews but when you look at the back it just seems cheep like the tried to save a few bucks on the input and outputs. But I have not seen any numbers on the DAC used in it. I did see some Youtube vids on the new line of Onkyo coming out early next year and it looks like a nice upgrade but again we will see what actually comes out. But the do include Dirac with the unit so it will save money on the upgrade to ART. I have seen the RZ70 as low as 1800. I guess they are getting rid of the old stock.

I would not be considering the RZ70 at this stage, its replacement (with Dirac ART capability) has already been shown at audio shows, and is probably going to be formally launched late this year or early next year.

I wasn't willing to wait and jumped ship from Onkyo/Integra to Denon and purchased an X4800

Looking forward to Amir's review of the X4900....

 

[Rockman2]

I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing. My point is more about @Rockman2 and @EWL5 's posts.

Anyway, it didn't take too long to find the post I was thinking so it is again:

Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

If worlds best is expensive and you are okay with Amazon, try Suanqi brand in the US. I thought they were better/nicer than the monoprice. No pinout I can find either on Amazon or google search. So no guarantee they meet Hypex recommended pinout either.

www.audiosciencereview.com

In the linked article in that post, note what was stated as below:



And it is easy to agree, if one reads the explanation, it doesn't take an EE to understand why it would work "almost equally..."

Just getting back from some surgery. Thanks for the reply. I actually remember this. I read it a few years ago and it looks like Buckeyes is making the cables.

 

[peng]

Just getting back from some surgery. Thanks for the reply. I actually remember this. I read it a few years ago and it looks like Buckeyes is making the cables.

For some reason, he had a couple of issues with the RCA to XLR interconnects (Monoprice iirc), yet I used those many times with no trouble at all. I think even if you run into some slight ground loop related hum, those cheap (relatively) Monoprice ones could be fixed with a side cutting, or de-soldering, but it would be easier to just return them and buy the ones that meet the criterion stated in the Hypex papers.

 

[Rockman2]

For some reason, he had a couple of issues with the RCA to XLR interconnects (Monoprice iirc), yet I used those many times with no trouble at all. I think even if you run into some slight ground loop related hum, those cheap (relatively) Monoprice ones could be fixed with a side cutting, or de-soldering, but it would be easier to just return them and buy the ones that meet the criterion stated in the Hypex papers.

I guess wile using the new connectors if I do get a little hum I could hook the chassis together again with a ground wire. I have been looking at upgrading the AVR. I may stay with an AVR Like the Denon A10H or the 6800. I realize the 6900 is probably not far off but the 6800 can do ART supposedly and will probably go down in price when the 6900 is released. Also may wait on the new Onkyo RZ70 as they are a good value and will have ART. As always thanks for your help!

 

[peng]

I guess wile using the new connectors if I do get a little hum I could hook the chassis together again with a ground wire. I have been looking at upgrading the AVR. I may stay with an AVR Like the Denon A10H or the 6800. I realize the 6900 is probably not far off but the 6800 can do ART supposedly and will probably go down in price when the 6900 is released. Also may wait on the new Onkyo RZ70 as they are a good value and will have ART. As always thanks for your help!

That never worked for me but you never know unless you tried, in theory it would work under some conditions but that might be rare in practice.

 

[Rockman2]

CES is in September, I'm guessing Marantz & Denon will update a few more models.