Marantz AV10 with external SMSL SU10 sounds worse....thoughts?

[Mreservices]

I have a Marantz AV10 and I thought I would try an external dac for better 2 channel music. I purchased an SMSL SU10 to try. I have my eversolo connected through a coaxial cable to the dac. I then have the dac connected with a pair of XLR cables to the Marantz. I also have an optical cable coming out of the eversolo directly to the Marantz so I can a/b switch for listening purposes. With the XLR cables I had it in Pure mode which per Massimo bypasses the internal dac. I had no room correction on and just played to my Goldenear reference speakers. No matter what setting, the music just seems flat and no soundstage. Almost like my ears have blinders on them. When I switch to the optical cable and run through the Marantz dac, the whole sound stage opens up and it's much Fuller sounding. Again no room correction. Sound is night and day different. I would have thought that the external dac would have had better components and sounded better with a larger soundstage. Am I missing something? I could understand if they were close and or did not sound any different. But it is a huge difference between the two favoring the Marantz unit. The only thing I have not tried is a USB cable instead of coaxial. I appreciate anyone's input.

 

[GXAlan]

Have you tried blind testing?

If you still hear the difference, the best thing to figure this out is to record and measure differences.

There may also be some gain issues. Since we know louder can sound better (to a point), try to see if your external DAC beats the Marantz native AV10 when you make the SMSL DAC louder.

 

[gvl]

The magic of the default Marantz filter or rather the lack thereof? They did say their slow filter sounds better based on “research “.

 

[tetragrammaton]

> no room correction
> completely sighted
> no volume matching
It's like you're setting yourself up for a bias orgy

 

[gvl]

bias orgy

Those can be fun.

 

[pogo]

Have you try to switch to AV10 DAC Filter 2?

 

[tetragrammaton]

Those can be fun.

Not when you're the only one on the receiving end
But I guess some are into that

 

[Mreservices]

Sorry, I also should have included that it was on Filter 2 which is not the Marantz sound filter. Also each song I did level match with an SPL meter to ensure that I was listening at the same levels. I tried to eliminate the things that I could think of.

 

[JSmith]

It's rather pointless anyway running an external DAC with this AVP. What amp are you using?


JSmith

 

[Mreservices]

Front three are running off of some Music Fidelity monoblocks. The rest of the system's running off of some Outlaw Audio 755 amps. Eventually all those will be replaced with some Purify amps. Thinking the external DAC is going to get sold and put towards other things.

 

[GXAlan]

> no room correction
> completely sighted
> no volume matching
It's like you're setting yourself up for a bias orgy

That said, he should be biased toward liking the new setup….

Sorry, I also should have included that it was on Filter 2 which is not the Marantz sound filter. Also each song I did level match with an SPL meter to ensure that I was listening at the same levels. I tried to eliminate the things that I could think of.

Level matching with the SPL meter isn’t that accurate, so a good test is to make each setup 1 dB LOUDER. If the AV10 was 0.3 dB louder, it could be a night and day difference in some transients. If you bumped up the volume a full dB when running the SMSL dac, it’s a good control.

Louder is better, but a loud Sonos Roam won’t sound better than a softer Revel Salon2. There are limits to the benefit of a louder signal.

Last, SWITCH the left and right XLR cables. I don’t know where, but there was a photo of a budget dac or amp which was wired in reverse!

 

[GXAlan]

Thinking the external DAC is going to get sold and put towards other things.

^^^ this.

I run a 90 dB SINAD Trinnov. Your AV10 is more than competent. If you don’t have noise at idle, and you don’t run out of power, keep your amps too. As bad as those amps might get, the built in amps of Genelec, Neumann, and Meyer Sound probably won’t measure state of the art either. Unless you can profit by selling your amps, or you want cooler/smaller amps as an upgrade, your best bet is always putting it all into speakers.

Going with an external DAC eats away at budget for physical media or a bigger subwoofer, etc.

 

[Bulldogger]

I have a Marantz AV10 and I thought I would try an external dac for better 2 channel music. I purchased an SMSL SU10 to try. I have my eversolo connected through a coaxial cable to the dac. I then have the dac connected with a pair of XLR cables to the Marantz. I also have an optical cable coming out of the eversolo directly to the Marantz so I can a/b switch for listening purposes. With the XLR cables I had it in Pure mode which per Massimo bypasses the internal dac. I had no room correction on and just played to my Goldenear reference speakers. No matter what setting, the music just seems flat and no soundstage. Almost like my ears have blinders on them. When I switch to the optical cable and run through the Marantz dac, the whole sound stage opens up and it's much Fuller sounding. Again no room correction. Sound is night and day different. I would have thought that the external dac would have had better components and sounded better with a larger soundstage. Am I missing something? I could understand if they were close and or did not sound any different. But it is a huge difference between the two favoring the Marantz unit. The only thing I have not tried is a USB cable instead of coaxial. I appreciate anyone's input.

Can you directly connect the dac to your amps, bypass Marantz and use it as a volume control? If you can, try that and see what happens.

 

[DVDdoug]

I'd guess the Marantz has some EQ or other processing (which is obviously bypassed in pure direct mode).

Nothing in the DAC should affect soundstage. If there's a difference/defect in a DAC it's usually noise (audible hiss, hum, or whine, in the background). It's possible that there is defect and you're getting mono but that's unlikely.

Soundstage comes from the recording, room acoustics and speakers, and your brain.

 

[Tom C]

Can you directly connect the dac to your amps, bypass Marantz and use it as a volume control? If you can, try that and see what happens.

I’m curious about this too.