Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

[welwynnick]

Does anybody know if the AV 20 measures as well as the AV 10?

If I recall correctly, Marantz quote 107dB SINAD for the AV10 and 110dB for the AV20, in spite of the cost saving measures.
The evidence is here somewhere, but it's not easy to find.

Sound United Training

Welcome to Sound United Training — the official training and support channel for premium audio brands including Denon, Marantz, Bowers & Wilkins, Polk Audio, Definitive Technology, and Classé. Sound United brings these brands together within a shared portfolio, supporting them with training...

www.youtube.com

 

[peng]

If I recall correctly, Marantz quote 107dB SINAD for the AV10 and 110dB for the AV20, in spite of the cost saving measures.
The evidence is here somewhere, but it's not easy to find.

Sound United Training

Welcome to Sound United Training — the official training and support channel for premium audio brands including Denon, Marantz, Bowers & Wilkins, Polk Audio, Definitive Technology, and Classé. Sound United brings these brands together within a shared portfolio, supporting them with training...

www.youtube.com

View attachment 539246

View attachment 539247

Marantz provided another reason for the "Marantz sound", I turned on the subtitle (hence the wrong spellings) so you don't have to watch the video and search for that part:

They also mentioned the rubber feet, different type for different unit weight are another reason.

So for believers they have given quite a few reasons for the Marantz sound, including those I remember hearing/seeing:

- HDAMs, have different versions.
- DAC filters, provided filter 1 and 2 user selectable, for the Cinema 30, AV10, AV20, not sure about the AV30.
- Copper plated screws, and washers.
- Rubber feet.

All contributed to the Marantz sound, unfortunately, users don't get to dictate the particular sound signature, the Marantz Sound master decided what he thought it should be and tuned to it for you.

I really like those training videos, that's one thing Masimo did well, there were no such things prior to them taking ownership. Those videos are informative and highly entertaining as well (I be non believers may even laugh out loud involuntarily), I hope the new owner will continue producing those videos going forward.

 

[LTig]

And if/how much AV30 takes a hit compared to these 2?

I checked the specs of the AV30 on the german website - nothing at all, just a list of features. The only numbers shown are power consumption.

 

[IamJF]

If I recall correctly, Marantz quote 107dB SINAD for the AV10 and 110dB for the AV20, in spite of the cost saving measures.

Way more important would be S/N as SINAD.
We are not sensitive to THD at 105dBSpl ... but we are for noise from 11 speakers around us.

 

[welwynnick]

Way more important would be S/N as SINAD.
We are not sensitive to THD at 105dBSpl ... but we are for noise from 11 speakers around us.

If that's what you think then fine.
However, I was only relaying some hard-to-find information that Marantz had made public.
If they had announced the SNR, then I would have mentioned that as well.
Having said that, the SINAD is often limited by the SNR rather than the THD, so that might be what we're seeing anyway. Or maybe not.

 

[IamJF]

If that's what you think then fine.

That's not my opinion ... that's simply how we perceive sound.

A dedicated cinema room is usually quiet. Often REALLY quiet. With the projector and all electronics in a different room and cinema speakers with high sensitivity - noise of the amp/chain is critical!
THD of the ear at 105dBSpl(C) and more is already way higher as from the gear. And this is ATMOS cinema, that's the design goal what speakers need to meet. And 10dB more for subs.

Watching TV with some Canton speakers in the living room ... you don't need to care about the SIND numbers

Having said that, the SINAD is often limited by the SNR rather than the THD, so that might be what we're seeing anyway. Or maybe not.

The whole point of SINAD is to detect the limitation of THD of the circuit over the nose floor. As long as noise floor dominates we see a linear rising curve. (blue below 2Vrms) When it flattens and goes down THD dominates.
From these curves we can see - noise goes up with turning the level knob up. THD of the output circuit takes over at around 3Vrms. But THD is still very low and you already have your cinema at full power there. No concerns.

But it's not your fault that there is an emphasis on SINAD - this message was not meant personal!

 

[welwynnick]

I was only answering somebody else's question, and I quoted what Marantz said. I wasn't suggesting that SINAD was important.
I'll delete this post tomorrow as it doesn't serve this thread.

 

[Sal1950]

Marantz provided another reason for the "Marantz sound", I turned on the subtitle (hence the wrong spellings) so you don't have to watch the video and search for that part:

I do feel somewhat cheated with my AV20. I read that the AV10 has select-able white or blue side lighting. My AV20 only has white.

 

[Oddball]

I do feel somewhat cheated with my AV20. I read that the AV10 has select-able white or blue side lighting. My AV20 only has white.

But you get to brag about higher SINAD in return. A true audiophile would take that trade anytime .

Don't think AV20 was measured, but Marantz provided SINAD and other measurements for AV10 that were right on the money (verified by Amir and, for what it is worth, Gene). So people expect that they stayed honest with AV20. It also makes sense as they should have learned better in couple of years that divide AV10 from AV20.

AV30 - don't really know about that one. Not on my radar.

 

[peng]

I was only answering somebody else's question, and I quoted what Marantz said. I wasn't suggesting that SINAD was important.
I'll delete this post tomorrow as it doesn't serve this thread.

I hope you won't delete it, there is no reason to do so. Regardless, Amir measured both SNR and SINAD, both are important. Based on the results, 113-114 dB SNR, volume at 82; and about 90-104 dB SINAD, FBW, or 93-107 dB SINAD, 1 kHz test, the AV10 should be as transparent as the best available AVP for most people, including golden ears type (my guess only, hard to know what golden ears can hear).

 

[Sal1950]

But you get to brag about higher SINAD in return. A true audiophile would take that trade anytime

But blue is sooo kool. McIntosh uses blue.

 

[HiFi 5.2]

If I understand you guys correctly, then the AV 20 has less hiss from the speakers than the AV 10 or am I totally off here. And one thing I do not get why did Marantz put component video in on the AV 20 my dream processor would have only XLR's fully balanced fully differential HDMI board and that would probably be it. I'm only after the sound nothing else.

 

[Oddball]

If I understand you guys correctly, then the AV 20 has less hiss from the speakers than the AV 10 or am I totally off here. And one thing I do not get why did Marantz put component video in on the AV 20 my dream processor would have only XLR's fully balanced fully differential HDMI board and that would probably be it. I'm only after the sound nothing else.

Hiss from the speakers has absolutely nothing to do with SINAD. It will depend on interaction between your AVP, amps and speakers, and could have something to do with interference in your cabling or power source. Better question is how to avoid it, but requires more detail on what you are planning to do.

 

[MrPotatoHead]

Is hiss from speakers still a thing? I haven't heard hiss from a system in probably 30 years (ground loops in a car notwithstanding).

 

[Sal1950]

If I understand you guys correctly, then the AV 20 has less hiss from the speakers than the AV 10 or am I totally off here.

Under any normal conditions, neither should have any audible noise, and both are pretty much equal in S/N.

And one thing I do not get why did Marantz put component video in on the AV 20 my dream processor would have only XLR's fully balanced fully differential HDMI board and that would probably be it. I'm only after the sound nothing else.

Since they're both considered premium processors they try to offer a wide range of inputs that can meet most everyone's needs. Lots of folks have large AV systems and still have all sort of obsolete gear they wish to use. Some still use vinyl even. LOL

 

[welwynnick]

Hiss from the speakers has absolutely nothing to do with SINAD.

How do you come to that conclusion? The "N" in SINAD is noise. Sure, the rest of the system contributes to noise, but it's easy to show that the AVP contribution is significant.

 

[Oddball]

How do you come to that conclusion? The "N" in SINAD is noise. Sure, the rest of the system contributes to noise, but it's easy to show that the AVP contribution is significant.

Really? Well, take it however you want it...or not at all. Not writing a novel just to explain myself.

 

[Toni71]

AV10, I don’t hear any noise or hiss around me on a small attic. 9.2.6 with three Iota 7 channel power amps (don’t ask me why, it’s a long story). Only the pleasant bubble of surround sound around me.

 

[HiFi 5.2]

Really? Well, take it however you want it...or not at all. Not writing a novel just to explain myself.

I'm pretty sure that SINAD has something to do with if any noise is coming out of your speakers I used to own a Swedish brand called Bladelius Thor 2 it had a SINAD off 126. It was dead silent when I had my ear to the tweeter nothing came out of the tweeter at all and I have very sensitive speakers 94 or 95 DB even when I turn the volume up to max all the most nothing came out of the tweeters, but that was also a fully balanced design. One of the absolute best amplifiers I have ever owned.

 

[Oddball]

Look at my signature. First system absolutely zero hiss or noise even with ear-on-the-speakers. SINAD 107dB. Second system significant hiss out of speakers, and when noise floor is below 40dB, becomes slightly audible at MLP 2.5m away. SINAD 100dB.

Difference in SINAD of 7dB is not the reason for the hiss. It is combination of AVR/Amps and speakers. Same happened in two different locations/countries, so it's most likely not power related in this case.

People pull their hair over the hiss and many threads out there if you want to get into them. I gave up and just make sure that listening volume is sufficiently loud to mask the hiss.