Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

[Lsc]

Starting with the various DACs that measure better with XLR, I just use XLR for all my connections and have zero RCA. I suppose if I had a receiver that only had preouts via RCA, then obviously there is no choice but to use RCA.

Most products have XLR these days. It’s what is needed to have a product that will sell unless the manufacturer is purposely trying to differentiate their products.

Does it sound better? I hope it doesn’t sound worse.

 

[masterhw]

Most products have XLR these days. It’s what is needed to have a product that will sell unless the manufacturer is purposely trying to differentiate their products.

if only that were true for the AVR space

 

[Oddball]

Starting with the various DACs that measure better with XLR, I just use XLR for all my connections and have zero RCA. I suppose if I had a receiver that only had preouts via RCA, then obviously there is no choice but to use RCA.

Most products have XLR these days. It’s what is needed to have a product that will sell unless the manufacturer is purposely trying to differentiate their products.

Does it sound better? I hope it doesn’t sound worse.

I use only LR and subs via XLR. Can do center as well but was just lazy to bring it back to XLR since the experiment with RCA Y splitter and dedicated sub for center. RCA vs XLR absolutely no difference for center though - went through that at the time switching it from XLR to RCA. My surrounds are all RCA as amps have only RCA.

XLR can help with noise in some systems though, and could be better for long runs (like subs).

 

[Lsc]

I use only LR and subs via XLR. Can do center as well but was just lazy to bring it back to XLR since the experiment with RCA Y splitter and dedicated sub for center. RCA vs XLR absolutely no difference for center though - went through that at the time switching it from XLR to RCA. My surrounds are all RCA as amps have only RCA.

XLR can help with noise in some systems though, and could be better for long runs (like subs).

Makes sense. I bought into the fully balanced plan about 10 years ago. So all my equipment starting with the DAC, HT pre pro, 2 ch pre pro, analog active crossover and amplifiers are all fully balanced.

Turns out that this may have been fools gold because the Marantz AV10 is far superior to my XMC2 and it’s not fully balanced (lots of other examples as well).

Regardless this is where I’m at and I threw away almost all the RCA cables and I had a lot of them. So, does this mean that my signal chain is less “noisy”? Who knows at this point but but everything works and sounds fine…except now I have a mental block against RCA cables .

 

[rf1938]

I don't know how much fully balanced gear is out there - in the professional world, of which I'm part, most everything is truly balanced, and we have lots of gear interconnected compared to most home systems. With my AV10 (and Emotivia XPA Gen 3 amp), there is total silence, and I mean total, all RCA. My new Sigberg sub has a 35' RCA run and also has zero noise. Lots of ways for noise to enter a system, but the Marantz seems inherently very quiet in its unbalanced mode. Go figure.

 

[Oddball]

I don't know how much fully balanced gear is out there - in the professional world, of which I'm part, most everything is truly balanced, and we have lots of gear interconnected compared to most home systems. With my AV10 (and Emotivia XPA Gen 3 amp), there is total silence, and I mean total, all RCA. My new Sigberg sub has a 35' RCA run and also has zero noise. Lots of ways for noise to enter a system, but the Marantz seems inherently very quiet in its unbalanced mode. Go figure.

Absolutely agree - sometimes I still scratch my head about zero noise, and just keep coming back to speakers and subs and putting my ear next to the drivers. Absolute silence, like when it is off. Tried nearfied REW with on and off and all REW gets is the ambient noise. Warries by the second, but still quite indicative and close. This zero noise coupled with 114dB of dynamic range brings an experience that is bar no none.

 

[Sal1950]

Absolutely agree - sometimes I still scratch my head about zero noise, and just keep coming back to speakers and subs and putting my ear next to the drivers. Absolute silence, like when it is off.

Same here, I've never been able to hear any hiss, hum, or anything else when putting my ear to the speakers while using my RCA connected classic Adcom amps and a variety of front end gear and a couple different relatively high sensitivity speakers. The last time I remember it actually being an issue was with my 104db sensitive Klipsch LaScalas and VTL tube amps. Now with that combo everything DID matter.
That's why I'm always scratching my head over reports of easily audible noise from things like the JBL 306/8i powered monitors etc. IMHO there's just no excuse for this ???

 

[dlaloum]

if only that were true for the AVR space

When it comes to AVR's the issue of SPACE can be a factor, (XLR's take up a lot more space than RCA's!) - but also when looking at mass market models, the 20c extra per connector cost of the XLR's can also become a factor when multiplied by 11+ channels

Given the features you get on basic AVR's such as the Onkyo RZ30, at very very reasonable prices, it would seem niggardly to complain of the absence of XLR's.... on the other hand when paying the price of an AV10 - expecting XLR's seems quite reasonable.

In more midrange price brackets, things can get more "grey" ...

 

[Sal1950]

When it comes to AVR's the issue of SPACE can be a factor

I understand some folks desire for the compact space saving components but when I look at them all I can think about is all the HEAT being trapped inside them.

 

[chelgrian]

Same here, I've never been able to hear any hiss, hum, or anything else when putting my ear to the speakers while using my RCA connected classic Adcom amps and a variety of front end gear and a couple different relatively high sensitivity speakers. The last time I remember it actually being an issue was with my 104db sensitive Klipsch LaScalas and VTL tube amps. Now with that combo everything DID matter.
That's why I'm always scratching my head over reports of easily audible noise from things like the JBL 306/8i powered monitors etc. IMHO there's just no excuse for this ???

It’s a combination of wanting to extract the highest possible efficiency from the HF unit and cheaping out on electronics.

This is actually one thing that ATC do well, most of their products have self noise well below 20 dbA @ 1m. However it baffles me why manufacturers don’t spend a few dollars more to get noise down from audible levels in the 30s to inaudible levels in the 20s

S&R magazine went on a mission about this around 2020 but it doesn’t seem to have had a huge effect.

 

[levimax]

That's why I'm always scratching my head over reports of easily audible noise from things like the JBL 306/8i powered monitors etc. IMHO there's just no excuse for this ???

For low price high performance active speakers something has to give. Economy class D amps tend to "hiss" more than expensive dedicated amps and the horn loaded tweeters are fairly efficient and there is no attenuation from a crossover between the amp and the tweeter, so some "hiss" at idle is not surprising and must have been traded off against other priorities for when music is playing. From what I have seen these low cost active speakers perform very well overall. If you want it all i.e. high performance and silence at idle there are plenty of active speakers that can deliver but they tend to be more expensive.

 

[Sal1950]

It’s a combination of wanting to extract the highest possible efficiency from the HF unit and cheaping out on electronics.

Makes sense, I guess. But considering so many of these are used in desktop systems and listened to in the nearfield, yuck.
If I was a marketing exec I'd be having a big debate with the beancounters. I've read so much negative info about them, someone wouldn't be too happy when I left his office.

 

[chelgrian]

For low price high performance active speakers something has to give. Economy class D amps tend to "hiss" more than expensive dedicated amps and the horn loaded tweeters are fairly efficient and there is no attenuation from a crossover between the amp and the tweeter, so some "hiss" at idle is not surprising and must have been traded off against other priorities for when music is playing. From what I have seen these low cost active speakers perform very well overall. If you want it all i.e. high performance and silence at idle there are plenty of active speakers that can deliver but they tend to be more expensive.

Except for the same price class A&B can be even worse

It’s one thing that never seems to be mentioned when Genelec speakers are praised around here that Genelec tend to have quite high self noise.

 

[levimax]

Except for the same price class A&B can be even worse

It’s one thing that never seems to be mentioned when Genelec speakers are praised around here that Genelec tend to have quite high self noise.

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult class D amps, should have said "cheap amps tend to hiss".

I don't know about Genelec but the Neuman speakers I have are very quiet.

 

[rf1938]

FYI, if space is an issue, there are Neutrik XLR connectors, often used on video cameras, that are low profile and very high quality. Once again, though, I question how much gear is actually fully balanced, making the choice kind of a toss up. XLRs look cool and professional, but often offer no benefit in “semi” balanced systems.

 

[Sal1950]

It’s one thing that never seems to be mentioned when Genelec speakers are praised around here that Genelec tend to have quite high self noise.

That's a surprise. I never thought that Genelec suffered from the same issues?

I don't know about Genelec but the Neuman speakers I have are very quiet.

What's "very quiet"? If you walk up to the speaker and put your ear to it, can you hear any hiss or hum?

 

[levimax]

That's a surprise. I never thought that Genelec suffered from the same issues?


What's "very quiet"? If you walk up to the speaker and put your ear to it, can you hear any hiss or hum?

I have Neuman KH310's and I need to get my ear about 1" from the tweeter to hear faint noise. I hear nothing from the woofer or midrange even with my ear 1" away.

 

[Newman]

People are writing comments about the self noise of active loudspeakers in a very unhelpful way that leads casual readers to believe they will experience problematic noise levels from certain speakers when they will not necessarily experience any such thing.

Better, IMHO, if they didn't do that.

 

[Mort]

It’s one thing that never seems to be mentioned when Genelec speakers are praised around here that Genelec tend to have quite high self noise.

There's a good thread about that active now. Here's an exerpt.

Passive speakers/systems have hiss too, it is just at lower level and in many times not as audible. The difference comes from the fundamental difference in signal chain.

Active speaker: crossover filtering -> power amplier(s) -> drivers
Passive speaker: power amplier(s) -> crossover filtering -> drivers

In active speakers the power ampliers are directly connected to the drivers, there is nothing in between (in some cases there might be a single high pass capacitor on the tweeter output channel) attenuating the low level noise coming from the power ampliers. The amplifiers are seeing the raw response of the drivers without any attenuation which results in much higher acoustical sensitivity compared to a passive system which has been filtered in between the power amplifiers and the drivers. In many cases the difference can be up to 5 - 15 dB SPL / W depending on the raw response of the drivers and possible waveguides which boost the sensitivity even further. In passive speakers the crossover filtering acts up as a brake in between the power amplifiers and drivers, attenuating the low level noise considerably. The same filtering will also cause unlinearity and losses which are absent in an active speaker design.

 

[chelgrian]

People are writing comments about the self noise of active loudspeakers in a very unhelpful way that leads casual readers to believe they will experience problematic noise levels from certain speakers when they will not necessarily experience any such thing.

Better, IMHO, if they didn't do that.

Why is it very unhelpful to point out when an active monitor has audible levels of hiss ie ~ 35dbA @ 1m. It’s enough of an issue that a recording magazine tested and ranked such monitors in a ‘Hiss List’ and it frankly drives me nuts when using active near field monitors.

If customers choose monitors with lower self noise then perhaps the rest of the monitor industry will spend the few extra dollars to make their products have self noise levels below the threshold of hearing.

For example Genelec have made improvements in more recent generations.